Hi Nick, I am not one of the selection of ECI experts but it seems that they all are in Stuttgart for their important Media Producers Forum. I am just one of the Dutch ECI list members. I will try to answer your question and most probably you will get more details of the 'real experts' after the weekend! :-) The most important information for the speccing of printed material is the "Output Condition". In some applications the system refers to the "Output Condition Identifier". It links to the data needed to describe the actual color gamut for a specific combination of process, paper and ink. The Characterization Data is identical to the Output Condition. The Characterization Data is based on a specific set of dot percentages and dot gain or Tonal Value Increase for CMY and (most probably) a higher one for K. There is no GCR and UCR in these prints. The next level is the Output Intent or profile for that process-paper-ink combination. The GCR is part of this profile and important for the printing process. Fogra created the Characterization Data such as Fogra 39. ECI made a set of profiles such as ISOcoated_v2. They even made another profile based on the same Fogra39 characterization data but with a lower CMYK TAC. That profile is labeled ISOcoated_v2_300. That has just 300%. The ECI profiles have a relatively high amount of GCR. Adobe made also profiles based on the same Characterization Data fogra39 however with a different GCR setting. As you most probably know GCR can have a length component (amount of UCR and length of K) and a width component. That describes the amount of tertiair colors (CMY combinations replaced by K. If all those "dirty" colors are replaced by K we have maximum GCR. Until recently 50% GCR was the maximum. The Media Standard Prints 2007 (www.bvdm.org) now describes a maximum GCR setting of 70%. Adobe and ECI build profiles based on identical Characterization Data but Adobe has (in general) a lower GCR. Some Americans prefer that. Some Europeans too. Recent tests show that we easily can reduce the amount of GCR if we have a good process control. I would suggest to talk to you printer. Perhaps they already tested both profiles side by side and know what they have to advise. My personal experience is that we have good reasons to increase GCR. It's good for the stability of the process and will improve the quality (major reason). Of course one has less visual register problems, less ink consumption and less drying problems. Printers like it. Major conclusion: Recent Characterization Data is very important. So Fogra39 is better than Fogra27. Both ECI and Adobe made profiles based on the most actual CD (Fogra39) Quality of the profiles and amounts of gray balance and GCR are the next point to check. I hope this info helps At 11:13 11-9-2007 +0100, you wrote: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Henk Gianotten, Prins Hendriklaan 58 3761 DW Soest, Netherlands Tel. +31 (0)35 60 12 206 Fax: +31 (0)84 73 04 497 e-mail: henk(a)gianotten.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------