Re: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
by graxx＠videotron.ca
Hallo Karl,
I really need to brush up on meine Deutche 😊
Danke shön so much for taking the zeit to explain.
I suspected Fogra51 was nicht der simple result of farbmessung druck sheets mit M1 instrument. You had to take into consideration Fogra39 and alles die other “historical” developments, to carry the same “logic” into the future.
May I ask which proofing substrate sind “popular” to proof Fogra51 und 52, heute for inkjet?
Has BVDM tested any? By any chance?
MfG / Roger
From: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com <eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com> On Behalf Of Karl Michael Meinecke
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 3:06 AM
To: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
Bonjour Roger,
Fogra 51 and Fogra 52 were not created by just taking measurements from a print. The characterization data sets, especially of Fogra 51, is the result of a comprehensive process of optimization, statistical evaluation, comparing results and final decision of a group of ECI experts. The more than 15 print series at german, swiss and austrian printing companies were initiated and accompanied by bvdm (myself) and overseen by ECI experts. The measurements taken for Fogra 51 were all M1 (with additional M0 and M2 measurements to evaluate the differences). All this was intense and hard work of ECI experts (Hanno Hoffstadt (key person), Florian Suessl, Jurgen Seitz, Roland von Oeynhausen et al). When the final characterization data set (Fogra 51) was fixed and passed, it was given to Fogra to create the official data for publication in the series of Fogra characterisation data. Most of the Fogra chardata were created in a similar way, e.g. Fogra 27 ff. with the development of Altona Test Suite reference prints (2003-2004), Fogra 39 ff. with the edition of ISO 12647-2 (2007) and with the development of web offset chardata and profiles by ECI web offset international working group, supported by bvdm.
The corresponding ECI profiles were created and published by ECI. The „making of“ was reported e.g. at the launch of the new printing conditions (ECI Profiles, Fogra 51, 52) on September 30, 2015 in a special event at Stuttgart Media University (HdM).
The comprehensive documentation (with many related topics such as PDF/X, ISO Standards for prepress and print) is available: MediaStandard Print (2018) free PDF download from bvdm website: https://www.bvdm-online.de/themen/technik-forschung/richtlinien-und-handrei… There is a mix of german and english documents for download on this website (e.g. also the ECI bvdm CrayCon series – Gray Control Strips). Just scroll down.
Best Regards
Karl Michael Meinecke
(bvdm technical expert 1980-2017)
***
Karl Michael Meinecke, Dipl.-Ing. (HdM)
E-Mail: karlmichael.meinecke(a)online.de <mailto:karlmichael.meinecke@online.de>
Mobil: +49 (0) 157 72 58 12 40
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-michael-m-56282429/> https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-michael-m-56282429/
Büro M
www.karlmeinecke.de <http://www.karlmeinecke.de>
DE-86482 Aystetten
DE-65343 Eltville am Rhein
Von: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> [mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] Im Auftrag von graxx(a)videotron.ca <mailto:graxx@videotron.ca>
Gesendet: Samstag, 8. Juni 2019 22:38
An: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Betreff: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
Is there any dokumentation on what instruments were used to generate Fogra 51 und Fogra52 characterization datei? Just “M1”? Or was it a “combination” of the same press sheets measured with different instruments, all in M1 mode, like with an X-Rite eXact oder eine Techkon Spectrodens oder eine Minolta FD-7?
Enshuldigen sie if I missed this and it is already mentioned on Fogra excellent web site ☹
MfG / Roger Breton
www.graxx.ca <http://www.graxx.ca>
4 years, 10 months
- 3
- 2
Re: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
by graxx＠videotron.ca
Karl,
Herzlichen Glückwunsch zum Geburtstag!
/ Roger
From: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com <eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com> On Behalf Of Karl Michael Meinecke
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 8:05 AM
To: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
Dear Roger,
my colleague Dieter Kleeberg (bvdm) will answer your questions by tomorrow.
I am on vacation right now, today is may birthday and I am, at least officially, retired ;-)
Best Regards from Lisboa
Karl Michael Meinecke
Von: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> [mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] Im Auftrag von graxx(a)videotron.ca <mailto:graxx@videotron.ca>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Juni 2019 12:41
An: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
Hallo Karl,
I really need to brush up on meine Deutche 😊
Danke shön so much for taking the zeit to explain.
I suspected Fogra51 was nicht der simple result of farbmessung druck sheets mit M1 instrument. You had to take into consideration Fogra39 and alles die other “historical” developments, to carry the same “logic” into the future.
May I ask which proofing substrate sind “popular” to proof Fogra51 und 52, heute for inkjet?
Has BVDM tested any? By any chance?
MfG / Roger
From: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> <eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> > On Behalf Of Karl Michael Meinecke
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 3:06 AM
To: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
Bonjour Roger,
Fogra 51 and Fogra 52 were not created by just taking measurements from a print. The characterization data sets, especially of Fogra 51, is the result of a comprehensive process of optimization, statistical evaluation, comparing results and final decision of a group of ECI experts. The more than 15 print series at german, swiss and austrian printing companies were initiated and accompanied by bvdm (myself) and overseen by ECI experts. The measurements taken for Fogra 51 were all M1 (with additional M0 and M2 measurements to evaluate the differences). All this was intense and hard work of ECI experts (Hanno Hoffstadt (key person), Florian Suessl, Jurgen Seitz, Roland von Oeynhausen et al). When the final characterization data set (Fogra 51) was fixed and passed, it was given to Fogra to create the official data for publication in the series of Fogra characterisation data. Most of the Fogra chardata were created in a similar way, e.g. Fogra 27 ff. with the development of Altona Test Suite reference prints (2003-2004), Fogra 39 ff. with the edition of ISO 12647-2 (2007) and with the development of web offset chardata and profiles by ECI web offset international working group, supported by bvdm.
The corresponding ECI profiles were created and published by ECI. The „making of“ was reported e.g. at the launch of the new printing conditions (ECI Profiles, Fogra 51, 52) on September 30, 2015 in a special event at Stuttgart Media University (HdM).
The comprehensive documentation (with many related topics such as PDF/X, ISO Standards for prepress and print) is available: MediaStandard Print (2018) free PDF download from bvdm website: https://www.bvdm-online.de/themen/technik-forschung/richtlinien-und-handrei… There is a mix of german and english documents for download on this website (e.g. also the ECI bvdm CrayCon series – Gray Control Strips). Just scroll down.
Best Regards
Karl Michael Meinecke
(bvdm technical expert 1980-2017)
***
Karl Michael Meinecke, Dipl.-Ing. (HdM)
E-Mail: karlmichael.meinecke(a)online.de <mailto:karlmichael.meinecke@online.de>
Mobil: +49 (0) 157 72 58 12 40
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-michael-m-56282429/> https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-michael-m-56282429/
Büro M
www.karlmeinecke.de <http://www.karlmeinecke.de>
DE-86482 Aystetten
DE-65343 Eltville am Rhein
Von: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> [mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] Im Auftrag von graxx(a)videotron.ca <mailto:graxx@videotron.ca>
Gesendet: Samstag, 8. Juni 2019 22:38
An: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Betreff: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
Is there any dokumentation on what instruments were used to generate Fogra 51 und Fogra52 characterization datei? Just “M1”? Or was it a “combination” of the same press sheets measured with different instruments, all in M1 mode, like with an X-Rite eXact oder eine Techkon Spectrodens oder eine Minolta FD-7?
Enshuldigen sie if I missed this and it is already mentioned on Fogra excellent web site ☹
MfG / Roger Breton
www.graxx.ca <http://www.graxx.ca>
4 years, 10 months
- 1
- 0
Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
by graxx＠videotron.ca
Is there any dokumentation on what instruments were used to generate Fogra 51 und Fogra52 characterization datei? Just “M1”? Or was it a “combination” of the same press sheets measured with different instruments, all in M1 mode, like with an X-Rite eXact oder eine Techkon Spectrodens oder eine Minolta FD-7?
Enshuldigen sie if I missed this and it is already mentioned on Fogra excellent web site ☹
MfG / Roger Breton
www.graxx.ca
4 years, 10 months
- 2
- 1