May 2005 - ECI-EN - lists.callassoftware.com

by ip PSP

Well, one of my customers, it's going to print a test job with some images like the Altona test suit ones, some special color patches, an ECI 2002 color chart, but his question is: Witch are the standard densities to print with UVI inks on polypropylene and PVC medias?, is there any ISO applicable to the packaging sector?. Best regards. Leon B. Garcia PSP

18 years, 3 months

5
10
0 0

ECIRGB versus LstarRGB

by Joakim Eskildsen

Dear ECI, I am an artist photographer who make fine art ink-jet print & CMYK books. I have use the fine ECIRGB workspace and it works fine, but now I have read about and also used LstarRGB and I am starting a large printing of exhibition work (both ink-jet print and CMYK books) and I wounder if there are anybady who can tell me if this newer gammer free RGB space will be better than the EciRGB. I have tryed to read and find info about on the web but there is not much. I work in 16 bit. I would be moust great full for any help regarding this. I am using the ISO coted cmyk profile Kind regarts Joakim Eskildsen -------------- Joakim Eskildsen Karlbergvägen 9 02400 Kyrkslätt Finland ciao.joakim(a)dnainternet.net +358-9-2216 330 fax/ phone +358 442871030 mobile phone

18 years, 10 months

7
18
0 0

RE: [ECI-EN] ECIRGB versus LstarRGB

by Bestmann, Guenter RD-PN32

Hello, the gamma function of eciRGB is f(x) = x ^ 1/1.8, the gamma function of LstarRGB is f(x) = 1.16 * x ^ 1/3.0 - 0.16. The chromaticity coordinates are in both cases the same. The advantage of LstarRGB is a better distribution of the RGBs with respect to the visual appearance. The advantage of eciRGB is a more even distribution of the RGBs with respect to the CMYKs of a printing process like offset or gravure with TVI in the range of ~ 13 to ~ 20 %. The eciRGB was developed by members of ECI. This is also true for LstarRGB but this profile is not officially released by the ECI and is not a new revision of eciRGB. Kind regards, Guenter Bestmann Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG Research & Development Dr.-Hell-Straße D-24107 Kiel, Germany -----Original Message----- From: eci-en-admin(a)lists.transmedia.de [mailto:eci-en-admin@lists.transmedia.de] On Behalf Of Paul Sherfield Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:24 AM To: eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] ECIRGB versus LstarRGB Joakim Eskildsen > am an artist photographer who make fine art ink-jet print & CMYK > books. I have use the fine ECIRGB workspace and it works fine, but now > I have read about and also used LstarRGB and I am starting a large > printing of exhibition work (both ink-jet print and CMYK books) and I > wounder if there are anybady who can tell me if this newer gammer free > RGB space will be better than the EciRGB. I have tryed to read and > find info about on the web but there is not much. I work in > 16 bit. I would be moust great full for any help regarding this. > > I am using the ISO coted cmyk profile Hi Joakim Apart from the 'gamma' issue I believe that LStarRGB is very similar to ECIRGB. In fact the same people created both. Regards Paul Sherfield The Missing Horse Consultancy Ltd Telephone: 01442 871752 Mobile: 07899 906385 Apple Solutions Expert-Print & Publishing This email and any attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of addressee. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, any disclosure, copying or other distribution is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete all copies from your system. Email may be susceptible to data corruption, interception and unauthorised amendment. We do not accept liability for any such corruption, interception or amendment or the consequences thereof. We do not accept liability for any action or inaction by the recipient as a result of advice or information contained within this email. _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN(a)lists.transmedia.de http://lists.transmedia.de/mailman/listinfo/eci-en

18 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

AW: [ECI-EN] Delta E tolerances for proofing

by Meinecke, Karl Michael (bvdm)

Hello Jouni, correct. ... digital-proof prints *should* agree with ... This is *should* and not *shall* which is a big difference in ISO standardization. Freundliche Gruesse - Kind Regards Karl Michael Meinecke Bundesverband Druck und Medien e.V. (bvdm) German Printing and Media Industries Federation (bvdm) -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Marttila Jouni [mailto:Jouni.Marttila@m-real.com] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2005 12:56 An: 'eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de' Betreff: RE: [ECI-EN] Delta E tolerances for proofing Hello Karl Here is direct citation from ISO 12647-2:2004, page 6 "The primary colour solids of digital-proof prints should agree with Table 2 within one half of the deviation tolerance specified in Table 3." If deviation tolerance is set to 5 for prints shouldn't this comment above mean that for proofs it should be 2,5 for primaries? BR Jouni Marttila _________________________________________ Jouni Marttila Project Manager M-real Corporation Technology Centre Kirkniemi FIN-08800 KIRKNIEMI Finland Tel: +358 (0)10 464 2908 Fax: +358 (0)10 464 2412 Mobile: +358 (0)50 381 9085 Email: jouni.marttila(a)m-real.com www.m-real.com -----Original Message----- From: eci-en-admin(a)lists.transmedia.de [mailto:eci-en-admin@lists.transmedia.de] On Behalf Of Meinecke, Karl Michael (bvdm) Sent: 28. huhtikuuta 2005 13:27 To: 'eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de' Subject: AW: [ECI-EN] Delta E tolerances for proofing Hi Belinda, the Fogra requirements for Delta E tolerances for proofing (average of 4 and a maximum of 10) are according to ISO 12647-2:2004 (Process Standard Offset). We are recommending the same values in our "MedienStandard Druck 2004" (i.e. Media Standard Print, english translation available with next edition September 2005). Lower tolerances might be necessary for "critical appraisal" eg. of grey tones. Some customers require lower tolerances (eg average 2.5 or 3 instead of 4 for the patches of Fogra mediawedge www.mediawedge.com) but this is *not* the standard requirement (ISO). Freundliche Gruesse - Kind Regards Karl Michael Meinecke Bundesverband Druck und Medien e.V. (bvdm) German Printing and Media Industries Federation (bvdm) Biebricher Allee 79 | D-65187 Wiesbaden Postfach 18 69 | D-65008 Wiesbaden Fon +49(0)611 - 80 31 68 | Fax +49(0)611 - 80 32 68 mailto:km@bvdm-online.de | URL www.bvdm.org ------------------------------------------------------ ATS | Altona Test Suite Application Kit www.altonatestsuite.com DPF | Digitalproof-Forum 2005 Stuttgart www.digitalproof-forum.de MSD | MedienStandard Druck 2004 www.bvdm.org/Aktuelles/Downloads.php bvdm-Publikationen recherchieren und bestellen http://www.point-online.de -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Belinda Beckinsale [mailto:bbeckinsale@sinnottbros.com.au] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2005 00:57 An: eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de Betreff: [ECI-EN] Delta E tolerances for proofing Hi Everyone, I was wondering if anybody would have any information on what delta e tolerances different organisations are using with regard to the maximum and average delta e differences between a proof and a printed sheet, and also between proofs on a day to day repeatability basis. The only thing I have been able to find is that fogra demand an average of 4 and a maximum of 10 based on their media wedge. Does anyone know what standards other bodies use, or have any relevant information on what would be an acceptable standard to expect and why (if possible)? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bee Belinda Beckinsale Sinnott Bros Pty Ltd 4/85-91 O'Riordan Street, Alexandria NSW 2015 Ph (02) 93539527 Fax (02) 93134597 _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN(a)lists.transmedia.de http://lists.transmedia.de/mailman/listinfo/eci-en _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN(a)lists.transmedia.de http://lists.transmedia.de/mailman/listinfo/eci-en

18 years, 11 months

5
5
0 0

RE: Differences ISO 12647-2 and FOGRA27L-30L

by Abe Hayhurst

I too have found the 12647-2 dataset to be significantly green, especially in the 3/4 tones. Abe Hayhurst We Do Graphics, Inc. 1150 N. Main St. Orange, CA 92867 714-997-7390 abe(a)wedographics.com

18 years, 11 months

2
1
0 0

RE: [ECI-EN] Differences ISO 12647-2 and FOGRA27L-30L

by Jean-Marie Govaerts

Hi Erik, Good to hear you followed my advise to check the difference between the Fogra 27L-30L measurement data and the value described by ISO 12647-2 Indeed, it seems ISO 12647-2 has not been made on a 4 color press. This would be an explanation why the differences are so large especially for the secondary colors. I think this is the reason why ISO tells us the values of Red, Green and Bleu are not normative. Maybe it would do a lot of good for all of us if the target values given us by ISO would have been based on a real production and not under laboratory conditions. That way the values for the secondary colors could also make part of the ISO. We have the same conclusion for the cyan in Fogra 27L-30L. I have no idea why, but apparently an other cyan was used for printing the Altona test suite then the one described by ISO. I hope this discussion will actually lead to an official answer how and why there is a difference in the Fogra 27L-30L measurement data , and the one described by ISO. Regards, Jean-Marie Govaerts Senior Consultant VIGC > ---------- > From: Erik Koldenhof > Reply To: eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 22:46 PM > To: eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de > Cc: Henk Gianotten > Subject: [ECI-EN] Differences ISO 12647-2 and FOGRA27L-30L > > Hey all, > > Already some time ago, we noticed some strange issues with the ISO > standard and the FOGRA data. > Although it has been my intent to send our info on it to you all much > earlier, it actually never left our office. > But still, I would like to get a nice discussion going on the issues > found. > > I've taken the liberty to upload a pdf report to our website which > describes some of the differences that we found between the ISO > 12647-2:2004 standard, > and the FOGRA 27L-30L data. > > Please feel free to get it, and use it for your personal > information/reviewing: > http://www.colormanagement.nl/Downloads/ISO-FOGRA_differences.pdf > > The PDF file describes mainly the differences between the target > CIE-Lab color values in ISO, and the values found in the FOGRA data. > The visuals first show the differences between the two data sets, and > the last two pages show single (wet-dry) and FC (wet-in-wet) tests, > compared to both the ISO and the FOGRA data... > > My most important questions are: > - Is it actually true that the ISO target values are based upon a > single-colour device (wet-in-dry printing condition)? > I know the FOGRA values are based upon fullcolour presses > (wet-in-wet), but I'm really curious for the 'official' ISO target > values. > > - Which dataset is going to be altered towards the other, the FOGRA > 27L-30L set of the ISO 12647-2 official references? > > - Can we have some 'official' answers on the strange behavior the we > see in papertype 1 Cyan? > The FOGRA 27L is too green compared to every other pratical test > we've done so far. > > I'm particular interested in which data the pratical endusers should > be using, both in prepress an in print. > > This week, we'll be at GrafiVak 2005 exhibition, RAI Amsterdam, booth > 01.536. > If you're in the neighborhood, pay us a visit if you please! > > Colorful greetings, > > > Erik Koldenhof > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Koldenhof Grafimedia Expertise > > PO Box1114 > > 2280 CC Rijswijk > > the Netherlands > > > > > tel. (+31) 70 336 02 42 > > fax. (+31) 70 394 11 87 > > > > > www.koldenhof.nl > > www.colormanagement.nl > > e-mail: erik(a)koldenhof.nl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >

18 years, 11 months

3
2
0 0

Differences ISO 12647-2 and FOGRA27L-30L

by Erik Koldenhof

Hey all, Already some time ago, we noticed some strange issues with the ISO standard and the FOGRA data. Although it has been my intent to send our info on it to you all much earlier, it actually never left our office. But still, I would like to get a nice discussion going on the issues found. I've taken the liberty to upload a pdf report to our website which describes some of the differences that we found between the ISO 12647-2:2004 standard, and the FOGRA 27L-30L data. Please feel free to get it, and use it for your personal information/ reviewing: http://www.colormanagement.nl/Downloads/ISO-FOGRA_differences.pdf The PDF file describes mainly the differences between the target CIE- Lab color values in ISO, and the values found in the FOGRA data. The visuals first show the differences between the two data sets, and the last two pages show single (wet-dry) and FC (wet-in-wet) tests, compared to both the ISO and the FOGRA data... My most important questions are: - Is it actually true that the ISO target values are based upon a single-colour device (wet-in-dry printing condition)? I know the FOGRA values are based upon fullcolour presses (wet-in- wet), but I'm really curious for the 'official' ISO target values. - Which dataset is going to be altered towards the other, the FOGRA 27L-30L set of the ISO 12647-2 official references? - Can we have some 'official' answers on the strange behavior the we see in papertype 1 Cyan? The FOGRA 27L is too green compared to every other pratical test we've done so far. I'm particular interested in which data the pratical endusers should be using, both in prepress an in print. This week, we'll be at GrafiVak 2005 exhibition, RAI Amsterdam, booth 01.536. If you're in the neighborhood, pay us a visit if you please! Colorful greetings, Erik Koldenhof ------------------------------------------------------------ Koldenhof Grafimedia Expertise PO Box1114 2280 CC Rijswijk the Netherlands tel. (+31) 70 336 02 42 fax. (+31) 70 394 11 87 www.koldenhof.nl www.colormanagement.nl e-mail: erik(a)koldenhof.nl ------------------------------------------------------------

18 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

ECI-EN May 2005