March 2004 - ECI-EN - lists.callassoftware.com

Monitor calibration and brightness settings (thoughts)

by Erik Koldenhof

Dear group, Recently, one the group members asked me to give my standpoint on maximum monitor brightness settings for calibration. Last year, we performed a study on Apple LCD displays and the calibration with the EyeOne (http://www.colormanagement.nl/acdcolor), and we had to deal with more or less the same question. We came up with the following theoretical thoughts, but actually they seem to work pretty OK in practice as well. I would like to throw these thoughts to this group as well, and hope that some of you can give a standpoint on this. OK, here's our thought. When calibrating a display, measurement are made in CIE-XYZ, and of course the 'Y' value for the whitepoint also states the brightness in Candela (eg 238.00). The monitor profile however always sets the maximum L (CIE-Lab) to L=100, no matter what the actual brightness for the display is set to. Programs like Adobe Photoshop uses the Lab values for there calculation (eg. when doing softproofing on screen), so Photoshop does not know the actual brightness of the display. Therefore, different displays, calibrated at different brightness settings, will always produce another contrast. During our study on the Apple LCD displays, we had to measure Photoshops Softproof color on screen with the SpectroLino, to check the quality of the profiles made by the EyeOne Display. When measuring reflective colors (eg. printed work), there's no need to 'normalise' the XYZ values to CIE-Lab. That's why you can see that a paperwhite has an L value of 96.00 or something like that. Photoshop calculates with that value as well during softproofing. For display profiles, the XYZ measurements are normalised to CIE-Lab (L=100), so your app does not know the actual brightness, as state before. Therefore, your softproof might not be as great as you want it to be. What we finally came up with, is to set the brightness of the monitor (can be measured from ProfileMaker Pro) to about 100Cd/m2. Then, the normalisation form XYZ to Lab is more or less set to zero. The L=100 value in your monitor profile is more or less the same as measured in XYZ ('Y'=100). Whit this monitor profile active, we produced several CMYK colors in Photoshop and performed a softproof which were measured again with the spectrolino. The results were great. Also when looking at the printed material, the visual match was very OK as well. So, in theory our conclusion is to set the monitor brightness to about 100Cd/m2, and in practice it works for us very well. There's of course one thing that we did not answer at this point, and that is the is the illumination of the printed work inside your viewing booth. I'm curious if some of you can add some to this discussion. Colorfull greetings, Erik Koldenhof ------------------------------------------------------------ STARTING MARCH 1st 2004, OUR NEW POSTAL ADRESS IS: Koldenhof Grafimedia Expertise Postbus 1114 2280 CC Rijswijk tel. (+31) 70 336 02 42 fax. (+31) 70 394 11 87 www.koldenhof.nl www.colormanagement.nl e-mail: erik(a)koldenhof.nl ------------------------------------------------------------

20 years

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Re: Monitor calibration [broken link]

by Erik Koldenhof

Hello List, Today our hosting-provider had some problems with the server, if everything is correct, the site is up and running now. ( http://www.colormanagement.nl/acdcolor ) Greetings, Erik Koldenhof On 30-mrt-04, at 14:48, Thomas Richard wrote: > Hello, > > the Link you postet in the List: > > Ich darf dann mal Erik Koldenhof zitieren, der sich am 30.03.2004, > gegen 13:49 Uhr +0200, folgendermaßen äußerte: >> Last year, we performed a study on Apple LCD displays and the >> calibration with the EyeOne (http://www.colormanagement.nl/acdcolor), >> and we had to deal with more or less the same question. > > > is broken. > > MfG > > Thomas Richard >

20 years

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Question about the new ECI pressprofiles

by Jón A Sandholt

I have been looking at the new ECI ISO pressprofiles and I notice that the Max Black goes as high as 100% Why is that?Is it not dangerous to let the black go all the way up to 100% instead of forX 95%? Best regards. Jón A Sandholt

20 years

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Test results new ISOwebcoated ICC profile

by Jo Brunenberg

Dear colleagues, Conerning: Test results new ISOwebcoated.icc profiel I have compared the new ISOwebcoated.icc profile with: - the "old" ISOwebcoatedSB.icc profile - our present Roto Smeets weboffset LWC profile. Here are the results: Using profile for proofing I proofed a critical testpage using these profiles and compared the proofs with the original (weboffset) printed sample. (Printed at the time we made our press profile). Result: Visual comparison: The proof with the ISOwebcoatedSB.icc profile shows un unacceptable difference when compared to the printed result. The proofs made with the new ISOwebcoated and our present Roto Smeets weboffset LWC profile are very close together in terms of gradation and color. Both proofs do a very good job predicting our press result. This proves (at least for us) that the new ISOwebcoated profile is well adapted to practical press results. I repeated the test both on Iris and KPG (HP) proofers. In both cases the conclusion was the same. Using the profiles for color conversion I made a very critical composition of RGB testimages (pastel- and solid colours as well as grayscale images etc.) and converted this testform to CMYK using both our own weboffset LWC profile and the new ISOwebcoated.icc profile. I used both Perceptual and Relative Colorimetric rendering. Made proofs on Iris and on KPG(HP). Result: Both profiles result in good color-coversions. However I prefer the ISOwebcoated profile because it is slightly better in terms of: - solid red colors - shadow detail - nicer black separation The relative colorimetric conversion using the ISOwebcoated profile is slightly better than the perceptual conversion, specifically in bright yellows and bright greens My final conclusion - Let us forget the old ISOwebcoatedSB profile! The new ISOwebcoated is so much better! - This is a very good base to start adding more specific ISOweboffset profiles like for SC and MFC paper. Interested to hear other experiences - Please let me know in case you have similar (or different) experiences! Best regards Jo Brunenberg PS: Since recently all new ISO profiles (including the ones for sheetfed offset) can be downloaded from: http://www.eci.org/deu/pages/profiles_d.html#fogra

20 years

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AW: [ECI-EN] Question about the new ECI pressprofiles

by Bestmann, Guenter 3887 S-RD-PN32

Hello, you are right. We at Heidelberg prefer Kmax=95%. But the majority of the eci members involved in making the characterization data and the eci profils for the Altona Test Suite prefers Kmax=100%. Best regards, Günter Bestmann ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Guenter Bestmann Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG Sheetfed R&D Prinect Dr.-Hell-Straße D-24107 Kiel, Germany Tel.: +49 (0) 431/3863887 Mail: <mailto:Guenter.Bestmann@Heidelberg.com> Guenter.Bestmann(a)Heidelberg.com -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: eci-en-admin(a)lists.transmedia.de [mailto:eci-en-admin@lists.transmedia.de]Im Auftrag von Jón A Sandholt Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. März 2004 23:17 An: eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de Betreff: [ECI-EN] Question about the new ECI pressprofiles I have been looking at the new ECI ISO pressprofiles and I notice that the Max Black goes as high as 100% Why is that?Is it not dangerous to let the black go all the way up to 100% instead of forX 95%? Best regards. Jón A Sandholt

20 years

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AW: [ECI] ISO 12647-2

by Meinecke, Karl Michael (bvdm)

Hi Bill, ISO 12647-2:2004 standard is not published yet. Available now is ISO/DIS 12647-2 (10/2003) Graphic technology - Process control for the manufacture of half-tone colour separations, proof and production prints - Part 2: Offset lithographic processes (available in English only) This Draft International Standard is the latest available version. It is expected to become ISO 12647-2:2004 by the end of this year without major changes. You can order ISO/DIS 12647-2 eg via www.beuth.de (german, search for ISO 12647-2) Unfortunately, on www.ansi.org only the 1996 standard seems to be available. Freundliche Gruesse - Kind Regards Karl Michael Meinecke Bundesverband Druck und Medien e.V. (bvdm) German Printing and Media Industries Federation (bvdm) Biebricher Allee 79 | D-65187 Wiesbaden Postfach 18 69 | D-65008 Wiesbaden Fon +49(0)611 - 80 31 68 | Fax +49(0)611 - 80 32 68 mailto:km@bvdm-online.de | URL www.bvdm.org ------------------------------------------------------ NEU NEU NEU - Altona Test Suite Anwendungspaket www.altonatestsuite.de NEW NEW NEW - Altona Test Suite Application Kit www.altonatestsuite.com -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Bill Birkett [mailto:wbirkett@pcolor.com] Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. März 2004 21:07 An: eci(a)lists.transmedia.de Betreff: [ECI] ISO 12647-2 Hallo Liste, Where can I obtain a copy of the ISO 12647-2:2004 standard? The version currently available from the ISO is 12647-2:1996. Thank you, -Bill ----- William B. Birkett <wbirkett(a)pcolor.com> Owner Precision Color, Inc. - http://www.pcolor.com/ 9200 General Drive, Plymouth, MI 48170 (USA) Phone: (734) 459-5640 FAX: (734) 459-4210 Cell: (734) 516-4790 Direct: (734) 414-3608 _______________________________________________ ECI mailing list ECI(a)lists.transmedia.de http://lists.transmedia.de/mailman/listinfo/eci

20 years

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RE: New ISO 12647-2 Spec.

by Abe Hayhurst

I have the 1996 version of the spec. Where can I get the draft version of the new one, as well as the measurement data being referenced? Are there any revisions anticipated or is it relatively certain that it will remain in it's present form. Also, the unrealistic wet trap that is being talked about, is it written into the standard or just a part of measurement data that is an example? As a side note, about 9 months ago I downloaded several sets of measurement data from the ECI website. The measurement data for printing condition 1 of ISO 12647-2 seemed to have an unrealistically good Cyan Magenta wet trap. After doing experimentation with about 20 different process ink sets, I discovered 2 ink sets available in the US that achieved an almost identical Cyan Magenta wet trap. Is this a similar scenario? Is the measurement data possibly showing nearly the best possible wet trap/s achievable today, which may point out the poor wet trap that some people or ink sets are achieving? Thanks, Abe Hayhurst We Do Graphics Inc. 1150 N. Main St. Orange, CA 92867 714-997-7390 -----Original Message----- Message: 1 From: "Alan Dresch" <alandresch(a)mellowcolour.com> To: <eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:45:16 -0000 charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [ECI-EN] New ISO 12647-2 Spec. Reply-To: eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de I do not normally contribute to mailing lists as I can't really justify the time. However I feel it is my responsibility to comment on the posting from Florian about using the "New" ISO Specification. My business is based on implementation of the ISO 12647-2 specification in Proofing and Printing applications. During the past couple of years I have developed a set of tools for critical colour print analysis and as you might expect I have become very familiar with practical implementation of the Specification. I have serious doubts about the measurement data from the 2002 print run which is the proposed target for the "New" spec. and I have fed back my comments to the ISO Committee. I am not sure where the Altona press run fits into the picture from the colour point of view, but I note from the literature included with the Altona prints that they are not intended for critical colour analysis, or words to that effect. 2002 Print run profiles and measurement data I have tested exhibits an unacceptable three quarter tone Blue (minus yellow) grey balance cast, and the solid colour densities are unrealistically 'vibrant' for practical implementation. Be careful with these profiles if you intend to use them for colour separation or if you intend them to be used as reference profiles in an ICC colour managed colour proofing application. Remember the "New" ISO 12647-2 specification is not yet published, it is in Draft Form only, and I would advise continued use of the 1996 specification until it is officially revised. Regards Alan Dresch Mellow Colour Mellow End Malinshill Road Evesham WR11 2QG Telephone 01386 421534 Mobile 07951 883608 Fax 01386 446590 email alandresch(a)mellowcolour.com web www.mellowcolour.com

20 years

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Meeting Barcelona update

by Bierfreund, Robert

Dear ECI Members, As mentioned some mails ago we, EUROHUECO S.A., have the pleasure to invite you and your travel partner to a "Welcome Cocktail" in Barcelona. The welcome cocktail takes place at the abba sants Hotel in the meeting room "RUSINYOL" at 20:00 o'clock. The next day the 26.03.04 the meeting starts at 10:30 as commented by Mr. Druemmer in the room "GAUDI". Lunch will take place from 13:30 to 14:30 at the Restaurant of the Hotel. During the meeting are the usual beverages and coffee available all the time. I wish all of us a successful meeting and in addition a happy weekend to you all. Best regards, Robert Bierfreund

20 years, 1 month

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flatpanel displays for color judgement

by Jo Brunenberg

Concerning: Flatpanel displays for color judgement We have been using Apple Cinema displays for colour judgement of magazine pages for quite some time and are quite happy with them. We use the GretagMacbeth Eye-One for monitor profiling. Could anyone give a recommendation for a good (similar) flatpanel display to be used with a PC? Best regards, Jo Brunenberg Logic Use ROTO SMEETS

20 years, 1 month

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Re: ECI-EN digest, Vol 1 #67 - 1 msg

by Peter Kleinheider

Abe On 17.03.2004, at 12:00, eci-en-request(a)lists.transmedia.de wrote: > As a side note, about 9 months ago I downloaded several sets of > measurement data from the ECI website. The measurement data for > printing > condition 1 of ISO 12647-2 seemed to have an unrealistically good Cyan > Magenta wet trap. That is the reason why you will now find new measure data on the fogra web site. Fogra27-Fogra32. These are measurements take from real-world prints. The old prints where done wet on dry and not wet on wet. Peter

20 years, 1 month

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ECI-EN March 2004