February 2005 - ECI-EN - lists.callassoftware.com

by ip PSP

Well, one of my customers, it's going to print a test job with some images like the Altona test suit ones, some special color patches, an ECI 2002 color chart, but his question is: Witch are the standard densities to print with UVI inks on polypropylene and PVC medias?, is there any ISO applicable to the packaging sector?. Best regards. Leon B. Garcia PSP

18 years, 4 months

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Monitor color profiles

by Age Bosma

Hi, Someone recommended me to have a look at the eciRGB color profile. Since I'm new to using color profiles I'm getting a bit confused. I hope you can help me out. I see the advantages of using the eciRGB color profile and I would like to do so as much is possible but what about the monitor color profiles that can be used in Windows? Is it recommended to use the eciRGB color profile for this purpose as well? Or is this something completely different? Microsoft states that a color profile provided by the manufactures of the monitor should be used since it's monitor specific. Though most manufactures don't provide a color profile for a specific monitor at all. Am I wrong? From what I've been told is that sRGB isn't realy recommended to be used, so what about changing color profiles used in images? E.g. a lot of images use the sRGB color profile and some use the AdobeRGB profile, is it recommended to alter the color profile of images to eciRGB or would this only degrade the quality of the image? I hope you can clarify things a bit for me. Thanks in advance, Age Bosma

19 years

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AW: [ECI-EN] ISO 12647-2 Paper Type 4: which?

by Meinecke, Karl Michael (bvdm)

Hello Yann, especially Type 4 papers have b- values out of tolerance due to the high amount of optical brighteners used by paper manufacturers in recent years. This trend is still growing. A modification of ISO target values will probably be done with a further revision (2006 ff). Today, users must handle/communicate these high b- values in PT 4 papers accordingly. A Fogra research work (2005, not published yet) the evaluation of twenty PT 4 paper shades found only two papers within ISO tolerance (b- value). See data below. Tab. 6: Farborte der Papiere des Papiertyps 4 (ungestrichen, weiß). Papiernummer L* a* b* Sollwerte 92 0 -3 Toleranzbereich 89 bis 95 -2 bis +2 -5 bis -1 1 93,3 2,5 -8,8 2 92,8 2,5 -9,2 3 93,2 1,6 -8,0 4 92,7 0,9 -6,0 5 93,2 1,8 -6,6 6 92,6 2,7 -9,9 7 93,1 1,7 -6,4 8 92,1 1,0 -6,2 9 92,4 1,0 -6,4 10 93,3 1,4 -7,9 11 93,1 1,4 -7,6 12 92,6 1,0 -6,2 13 93,2 1,1 -6,4 14 93,1 1,6 -6,3 15 93,2 1,6 -5,8 16 93,6 1,2 -7,2 17 91,6 1,4 -7,2 18 89,6 0,7 -3,0 *** 4/18 IGEPA Sopor Set 80 gsm 19 91,6 2,0 -7,1 20 92,8 1,0 -4,5 *** 4/20 SchneiderSöhne 625090 Planospeed ws 90 gsm Freundliche Gruesse - Kind Regards Karl Michael Meinecke Bundesverband Druck und Medien e.V. (bvdm) German Printing and Media Industries Federation (bvdm) Biebricher Allee 79 | D-65187 Wiesbaden Postfach 18 69 | D-65008 Wiesbaden Fon +49(0)611 - 80 31 68 | Fax +49(0)611 - 80 32 68 mailto:km@bvdm-online.de | URL www.bvdm.org ------------------------------------------------------ ATS | Altona Test Suite Application Kit www.altonatestsuite.com DPF 2004 | Digitalproof-Forum 2004 www.digitalproof-forum.de bvdm-Publikationen recherchieren und bestellen http://www.point-online.de -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Yann Bouckaert [mailto:yannb@sagam.be] Gesendet: Montag, 21. Februar 2005 20:56 An: eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de Betreff: [ECI-EN] ISO 12647-2 Paper Type 4: which? Hello, I am involved in bringing a sheetfed press to ISO 12647-2:2004 printing standards for paper type 1, 2 and 4. Therefore, I measured all common printing stock that this particular customer uses with a Gretag Spectrolino, and ranked them according to the conformity of the Lab values for these particular paper types. It was no problem finding paper fit for types 1 and 2, but every sample I took of his uncoated white stock was too blue. The b* values were going from -6.4 to -7.2 (white backing). My advice to him was to get some Zanders Zeta Matt white, because that was used for the Altona tests. Is there any other paper that qualifies? Best wishes, Yann Bouckaert Sagam Belgium _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN(a)lists.transmedia.de http://lists.transmedia.de/mailman/listinfo/eci-en

19 years, 2 months

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ISO 12647-2 Paper Type 4: which?

by Yann Bouckaert

Hello, I am involved in bringing a sheetfed press to ISO 12647-2:2004 printing standards for paper type 1, 2 and 4. Therefore, I measured all common printing stock that this particular customer uses with a Gretag Spectrolino, and ranked them according to the conformity of the Lab values for these particular paper types. It was no problem finding paper fit for types 1 and 2, but every sample I took of his uncoated white stock was too blue. The b* values were going from -6.4 to -7.2 (white backing). My advice to him was to get some Zanders Zeta Matt white, because that was used for the Altona tests. Is there any other paper that qualifies? Best wishes, Yann Bouckaert Sagam Belgium

19 years, 2 months

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Specifications for flexo printing

by Szymon Symonowicz

Hello, I've question about specifications (any) for flexo printing (actually for label flexo printing). I know that there is ISO 12647-6 spec. but under development (unfortunately). Does anyone from list know something about current specification? (not only ISO) greetings Simon

19 years, 2 months

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System Brunner Euro standard compared to ISO 12647-2

by Alan Dresch

Hi Marttila A well made Dupont 'DP10' proof from a AQ4 machine acceptably matches the targets and tolerances of the paper type 2 colour space and TVI curve B in the ISO 12647-2:1996 specification. In fact the proof when compared with a near perfectly ISO calibrated press print looks almost identical. There is a slight difference in greys between the two prints - the Dupont proof being slightly green or the ISO print being slightly warm depending on your preference. Either way the similarity between the proof and print is very good. The recently launched ( Nov 2004 ) ISO 12647-2:2005 specification colour space Lab targets and tolerances have been revised and tightened, Magenta and Yellow colours are now significantly different to those specified in ISO 12647-2:1996. Particularly noticeable when comparing the DP10 proof to New ISO print is the 'vibrancy' of Magenta and especially Red colours of the New Specification. In short the standard 'DP10' curve proof does not conform to the New ISO specification. Alan Dresch -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 10-02-05

19 years, 2 months

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AW: [ECI-EN] System Brunner Eurostandard compared to ISO 12647-2

by Meinecke, Karl Michael (bvdm)

Hello Jouni, generally, System Brunner (quality control system) is *not* providing specific standard printing conditions (like given with ISO 12647-2:2004). No target values, e.g. CIELAB solids, are recommended. System Brunner is focussing on (a set of) TVI curves and on printing densities. Materials (paper, ink) and process produce the TVI curve (check), mopdular grey balance elements are used for process control. Kind Regards Karl Michael Meinecke Bundesverband Druck und Medien e.V. (bvdm) German Printing and Media Industries Federation (bvdm) Biebricher Allee 79 | D-65187 Wiesbaden Postfach 18 69 | D-65008 Wiesbaden Fon +49(0)611 - 80 31 68 | Fax +49(0)611 - 80 32 68 mailto:km@bvdm-online.de | URL www.bvdm.org ------------------------------------------------------ ATS | Altona Test Suite Application Kit www.altonatestsuite.com DPF 2004 | Digitalproof-Forum 2004 www.digitalproof-forum.de bvdm-Publikationen recherchieren und bestellen http://www.point-online.de -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Marttila Jouni [mailto:Jouni.Marttila@m-real.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 11. Februar 2005 10:19 An: 'eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de' Betreff: [ECI-EN] System Brunner Eurostandard compared to ISO 12647-2 Hello As I have understood many Digital Cromalins uses Brunner Eurostandard for press simulation. Does anyone have info how close this is if ISOcoated or ISOwebcoated are used for press simulation and what the main differencies are? Have anyone who uses digital cromalin printed out ECI2002 chart using eurostandard simulation? - if so would it be possible to get the data. This way comparison to ISOcoated should be easy if my thinking here is correct BR Jouni Marttila _________________________________________ Jouni Marttila Project Manager M-real Corporation Technology Centre Kirkniemi FIN-08800 KIRKNIEMI Finland Tel: +358 (0)10 464 2908 Fax: +358 (0)10 464 2412 Mobile: +358 (0)50 381 9085 Email: jouni.marttila(a)m-real.com www.m-real.com

19 years, 2 months

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System Brunner Eurostandard compared to ISO 12647-2

by Henk Gianotten

At 11:19 11-2-2005 +0200, you wrote: >Hello > >As I have understood many Digital Cromalins uses Brunner Eurostandard for >press simulation. Does anyone have info how close this is if ISOcoated or >ISOwebcoated are used for press simulation and what the main differencies are? > >Have anyone who uses digital cromalin printed out ECI2002 chart using >eurostandard simulation? - if so would it be possible to get the data. >This way comparison to ISOcoated should be easy if my thinking here is correct > >BR Jouni Marttila Hi Jouni, I think Erwin Widmer from Ugra Graphic Arts Research Switzerland (St. Gallen) is the right person to answer these questions. He used to work for Brunner Systems, has an extensive practical and theoretical experience in printing and printing standards and is now managing the famous Swiss UGRA. His e-mail address is "Erwin Widmer, UGRA" <widmer(a)ugra.ch> most most probably he will reply on this community so we all can learn from his opinion on this subject. Regards, Henk P.S. I understood that M-Real was preparing a document on ISO 12647-2:2004 paper classes (groups) referring to the different curves for your paper. I got that info from a web offset printer in the UK. When do you make this info available for this color community?

19 years, 2 months

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System Brunner Euro standard compared to ISO 12647-2

by Alan Dresch

Oops! < The recently launched ( Nov 2004 ) ISO 12647-2:2005 specification.......... Should have read. The recently launched ( Nov 2004 ) ISO 12647-2:2004 specification......... Apologies. Alan Dresch Mellow Colour Ltd Mellow End Malinshill Rd Evesham WR11 2QG UK Telephone 01386 421534 Mobile 07951 883608 Fax 01386 446590 email alandresch(a)mellowcolour.com web www.mellowcolour.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 10-02-05

19 years, 2 months

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System Brunner Eurostandard compared to ISO 12647-2

by Marttila Jouni

Hello As I have understood many Digital Cromalins uses Brunner Eurostandard for press simulation. Does anyone have info how close this is if ISOcoated or ISOwebcoated are used for press simulation and what the main differencies are? Have anyone who uses digital cromalin printed out ECI2002 chart using eurostandard simulation? - if so would it be possible to get the data. This way comparison to ISOcoated should be easy if my thinking here is correct BR Jouni Marttila _________________________________________ Jouni Marttila Project Manager M-real Corporation Technology Centre Kirkniemi FIN-08800 KIRKNIEMI Finland Tel: +358 (0)10 464 2908 Fax: +358 (0)10 464 2412 Mobile: +358 (0)50 381 9085 Email: jouni.marttila(a)m-real.com www.m-real.com <www.m-real.com>

19 years, 2 months

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ECI-EN February 2005