New subject: RGB to CMYK with ISO web coated profile

4 Aug 2004

      I posted this on another list yesterday but below is an edited version

"Bob wrote:

The ECI profiles were produced using Heidelberg software and are well
rounded or averaged to produce a 'smooth' profile . There is some
debate to be had on the pros and cons of this rounding within certain
workflows.The ECI web coated ICC profile assumes 100% maximum black ,
which although not insurmountable, is not standard practice with most
of the PPA printers."

I responded with:

There are thousands of scanner operators and CMYK retouchers who 
believe that in order to get a neutral colour your cyan should be 
higher than your magneta and yellow AND the magenta and yellow should 
be equal.
Every day these retouchers and scanners base their corrections around 
this fairly fundamental belief, a belief wrote about by Dan Margulis 
and many more I'm sure.
If you create an RGB file with R0 G0 B0 and proof it with the ECI 
profile "IsoCoated" you will see that it reads cyan 87, magenta 86, 
yellow 76 and black 99.
To all these retouchers this would suggest that it is going to come out 
with a magenta bias. Therefore they would correct for that to make the 
mag and yellow match. Many would also look at the black and say that 99 
percent is too high and would not be happy at all about having to use 
this profile.
If you compare it to "eurostandard coated" which ships with Photoshop 
the same R0 G0 B0 converted to CMYK reads C95, M83, Y82 and K90. This 
would be considered far more acceptable.

I don't have the Cromalin Eurostandard DP10 profile so I can't say what 
thats like.

My point is that if Proof4Press comes out with a profile with dark 
neutrals that are similar to the ECI profile then so be it but they had 
better be ready to re-educate thousands of scanner operator and 
retouchers and fight some pretty big battles on the way.

Regards,
Daniel."

I was talking about proof4press, a profile scheme someone is trying to 
push through as a sort of generic space to use when you dont have 
access to specific printer details (which in reality is nearly all the 
time). Trying to achieve what the ISOcoated profile is supposed to be 
used for.
Can someone who made the ISOcoated profile please tell me why the dark 
neutrals don't match commonly held beliefs of neutrality and also why 
the black was made using 100%, not 90 or 95%?

Thanks,
Daniel.

Re:RGB to CMYK with ISO web coated profile