Re: [ECI-EN] Re:RGB to CMYK with ISO web coated profile

Can someone who made the ISOcoated profile please tell me why the dark neutrals don't match commonly held beliefs of neutrality

and also why the black was made using 100%, not 90 or 95%?

I posted this on another list yesterday but below is an edited version "Bob wrote: The ECI profiles were produced using Heidelberg software and are well rounded or averaged to produce a 'smooth' profile . There is some debate to be had on the pros and cons of this rounding within certain workflows.The ECI web coated ICC profile assumes 100% maximum black , which although not insurmountable, is not standard practice with most of the PPA printers." I responded with: There are thousands of scanner operators and CMYK retouchers who believe that in order to get a neutral colour your cyan should be higher than your magneta and yellow AND the magenta and yellow should be equal. Every day these retouchers and scanners base their corrections around this fairly fundamental belief, a belief wrote about by Dan Margulis and many more I'm sure. If you create an RGB file with R0 G0 B0 and proof it with the ECI profile "IsoCoated" you will see that it reads cyan 87, magenta 86, yellow 76 and black 99. To all these retouchers this would suggest that it is going to come out with a magenta bias. Therefore they would correct for that to make the mag and yellow match. Many would also look at the black and say that 99 percent is too high and would not be happy at all about having to use this profile. If you compare it to "eurostandard coated" which ships with Photoshop the same R0 G0 B0 converted to CMYK reads C95, M83, Y82 and K90. This would be considered far more acceptable. I don't have the Cromalin Eurostandard DP10 profile so I can't say what thats like. My point is that if Proof4Press comes out with a profile with dark neutrals that are similar to the ECI profile then so be it but they had better be ready to re-educate thousands of scanner operator and retouchers and fight some pretty big battles on the way. Regards, Daniel." I was talking about proof4press, a profile scheme someone is trying to push through as a sort of generic space to use when you dont have access to specific printer details (which in reality is nearly all the time). Trying to achieve what the ISOcoated profile is supposed to be used for. Can someone who made the ISOcoated profile please tell me why the dark neutrals don't match commonly held beliefs of neutrality and also why the black was made using 100%, not 90 or 95%? Thanks, Daniel. _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN(a)lists.transmedia.de http://lists.transmedia.de/mailman/listinfo/eci-en