Dear Daniel,
You asked ...
Can someone who made the ISOcoated profile please tell
me why the dark
neutrals don't match commonly held beliefs of neutrality
The reason is
colorimetry - this topic is described very well in
another ongoing ECI-EN thread.
and also why the black was made using 100%, not 90 or
95%?
black maximum was set to 100 percent based on good old repro know how:
CMYK-Scan-operators set light and shadow points at a drum scanner to
the lightest/darkest area in a way that these areas will be reproduced
with, say 95% and 5% on film/plate.
The same thing in correct rgb-scans: light/shadow to say 8 - 244
(instead of 0 - 255)
As a consequence you will not receive too much black in well prepared
rgb-images. 100 percent black will not occure as long as scans are done
properly.
Best regards,
Florian Suessl
Am 04.08.2004 um 19:04 schrieb daniel magee:
I posted this on another list yesterday but below is
an edited version
"Bob wrote:
The ECI profiles were produced using Heidelberg software and are well
rounded or averaged to produce a 'smooth' profile . There is some
debate to be had on the pros and cons of this rounding within certain
workflows.The ECI web coated ICC profile assumes 100% maximum black ,
which although not insurmountable, is not standard practice with most
of the PPA printers."
I responded with:
There are thousands of scanner operators and CMYK retouchers who
believe that in order to get a neutral colour your cyan should be
higher than your magneta and yellow AND the magenta and yellow should
be equal.
Every day these retouchers and scanners base their corrections around
this fairly fundamental belief, a belief wrote about by Dan Margulis
and many more I'm sure.
If you create an RGB file with R0 G0 B0 and proof it with the ECI
profile "IsoCoated" you will see that it reads cyan 87, magenta 86,
yellow 76 and black 99.
To all these retouchers this would suggest that it is going to come
out with a magenta bias. Therefore they would correct for that to make
the mag and yellow match. Many would also look at the black and say
that 99 percent is too high and would not be happy at all about having
to use this profile.
If you compare it to "eurostandard coated" which ships with Photoshop
the same R0 G0 B0 converted to CMYK reads C95, M83, Y82 and K90. This
would be considered far more acceptable.
I don't have the Cromalin Eurostandard DP10 profile so I can't say
what thats like.
My point is that if Proof4Press comes out with a profile with dark
neutrals that are similar to the ECI profile then so be it but they
had better be ready to re-educate thousands of scanner operator and
retouchers and fight some pretty big battles on the way.
Regards,
Daniel."
I was talking about proof4press, a profile scheme someone is trying to
push through as a sort of generic space to use when you dont have
access to specific printer details (which in reality is nearly all the
time). Trying to achieve what the ISOcoated profile is supposed to be
used for.
Can someone who made the ISOcoated profile please tell me why the dark
neutrals don't match commonly held beliefs of neutrality and also why
the black was made using 100%, not 90 or 95%?
Thanks,
Daniel.
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Florian Suessl | Director Technology
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