12:09 a.m.
Hi,
Someone recommended me to have a look at the eciRGB color profile. Since
I'm new to using color profiles I'm getting a bit confused. I hope you
can help me out.
I see the advantages of using the eciRGB color profile and I would like
to do so as much is possible but what about the monitor color profiles
that can be used in Windows?
Is it recommended to use the eciRGB color profile for this purpose as
well? Or is this something completely different?
Microsoft states that a color profile provided by the manufactures of
the monitor should be used since it's monitor specific. Though most
manufactures don't provide a color profile for a specific monitor at
all. Am I wrong?
From what I've been told is that sRGB isn't realy recommended to be
used, so what about changing color profiles used in images? E.g. a lot
of images use the sRGB color profile and some use the AdobeRGB profile,
is it recommended to alter the color profile of images to eciRGB or
would this only degrade the quality of the image?
I hope you can clarify things a bit for me.
Thanks in advance,
Age Bosma
12:25 a.m.
Just a quick overview:
- Monitor profiles describe **YOUR** actual hardware. They come from a
measurement device and some software that came with it. Using
pre-prepared
profiles is like guesswork. Don't use them.
- sRGB, AdobeRGB, ECI-RGB & LStar are working color spaces, used for
data delivery and color management workflows. They are supposed to be
"neutral".
You will use them as a transitional color space for compositions,
DigiCams or scanners.
- Your print environment will specify which profile to be used:
+ consumer printers: sRGB
+ US SWAP printer: AdobeRGB
+ European standards like Euroscale, Fogra, ISOcoated: ECIrgb or
better LStar
Before you are trying too much, read a good book or have a training.
This will be a good starting point:
http://www.boscarol.com/pages/cms_eng/index.html
Have fun
Am 19.01.2005 um 00:09 schrieb Age Bosma:
Hi,
Someone recommended me to have a look at the eciRGB color profile.
Since I'm new to using color profiles I'm getting a bit confused. I
hope you can help me out.
I see the advantages of using the eciRGB color profile and I would
like to do so as much is possible but what about the monitor color
profiles that can be used in Windows?
Is it recommended to use the eciRGB color profile for this purpose as
well? Or is this something completely different?
Microsoft states that a color profile provided by the manufactures of
the monitor should be used since it's monitor specific. Though most
manufactures don't provide a color profile for a specific monitor at
all. Am I wrong?
From what I've been told is that sRGB isn't realy recommended to be
used, so what about changing color profiles used in images? E.g. a lot
of images use the sRGB color profile and some use the AdobeRGB
profile, is it recommended to alter the color profile of images to
eciRGB or would this only degrade the quality of the image?
I hope you can clarify things a bit for me.
Thanks in advance,
Age Bosma
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9:12 a.m.
Karsten Krüger wrote
+ European standards like Euroscale, Fogra,
ISOcoated: ECIrgb or
better LStar
LStar? I have only seen this used as a better 'gamma' setting within monitor
calibration software. How does it work as a RGB working space, or is it Lab
based?
Regards
Paul Sherfield
The Missing Horse Consultancy Ltd
Telephone: 01442 871752
Mobile: 07899 906385
Apple Solutions Expert-Print & Publishing
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10:39 a.m.
Hi Paul
L*RGB (LstarRGB) has, I understand, been developed by Karl Koch (of
color-solutions). L*RGB is an improved version of his own eciRGB with a
more correctly spaced grey axis (I have a client who swears that it
gives better shadow detail and more prodictable tonal editing).
paul(a)missinghorsecons.co.uk (Paul Sherfield)::19/1/05::8:12 am:: GMT-0000
LStar? I have only seen this used as a better
'gamma' setting within monitor
calibration software. How does it work as a RGB working space, or is it Lab
based?
all the best
neil
Neil Barstow
12:02 p.m.
Yes, it is a RGB working space. It's gamut is identical to ECIrgb, but
without
any gamma. The L-axis stays intact, which makes it easier to translate
the RGB information into other gamuts (like printers).
It is supposed to be the best color space for "developing" digicam raw
files.
More info on www.lstarrgb.com (mostly german, gut just looking on the
graphs will give you an idea on what the differences are).
K.Krueger
Am 19.01.2005 um 09:12 schrieb Paul Sherfield:
Karsten Krüger wrote
+ European standards like Euroscale, Fogra,
ISOcoated: ECIrgb or
better LStar
LStar? I have only seen this used as a better 'gamma' setting within
monitor
calibration software. How does it work as a RGB working space, or is
it Lab
based?
Regards
Paul Sherfield
The Missing Horse Consultancy Ltd
Telephone: 01442 871752
Mobile: 07899 906385
Apple Solutions Expert-Print & Publishing
This email and any attachments may be confidential and are intended
solely
for the use of addressee. If you are not the intended recipient of this
message, any disclosure, copying or other distribution is strictly
prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this message in
error,
please notify the sender and delete all copies from your system. Email
may
be susceptible to data corruption, interception and unauthorised
amendment.
We do not accept liability for any such corruption, interception or
amendment or the consequences thereof. We do not accept liability for
any
action or inaction by the recipient as a result of advice or
information
contained within this email.
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1:47 p.m.
New subject: TVI and ISO ICC profiles
Hi
This has been troubling me for a little while:
The TVI curves in the Altona Suite, A to F, especially curves B, C, D and E,
as applied to Paper type 3, Heatset web offset with the ISO web offset ICC
profile.
Surely if the ICC profile is based on a standard printing condition it will
only print at it's best if these conditions are matched on paper, Lab, TVI
etc.
So why are there four curves for this condition, and the uncoated printing
conditions, I understand and agree with the TVI 'increase' for the black, as
it is normally printed on the first unit. However surely the plates being
positive or negative is irrelevant to the ICC profile which is looking for
the correct TVI as measured on the printed sheet?
The difference between curve B, positive plate, paper type 3 on a 40% with a
TVI of 16% and curve D with a negative plate, paper type 3, and 40% with a
TVI of 22% is large. What does the ICC web offset profile need?
The plate type has no effect on the TVI required when printed on paper via
the ICC profile. Yes the plate type will effect this but should be
controlled by output curves at film production.
How do these curves apply to CtP?
Which is the correct/best curve for each ISO ICC profile?
This is easy to workout for ISO coated but not for the other 3 ISO standard
profiles.
Regards
Paul Sherfield
The Missing Horse Consultancy Ltd
Telephone: 01442 871752
Mobile: 07899 906385
Apple Solutions Expert-Print & Publishing
This email and any attachments may be confidential and are intended solely
for the use of addressee. If you are not the intended recipient of this
message, any disclosure, copying or other distribution is strictly
prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error,
please notify the sender and delete all copies from your system. Email may
be susceptible to data corruption, interception and unauthorised amendment.
We do not accept liability for any such corruption, interception or
amendment or the consequences thereof. We do not accept liability for any
action or inaction by the recipient as a result of advice or information
contained within this email.
3:50 p.m.
New subject: TVI and ISO ICC profiles
Paul-
You've raised a timely question regarding the relevance of positive
or negative plates in a CtP environment. Here is what the current ISO
12647-2 standard says about that:
"This part of ISO 12647 is
- directly applicable to proofing and printing processes that use
colour separation films as input;
- directly applicable to proofing and printing from printing formes
produced by filmless methods as long as
direct analogies to film production systems are maintained;"
So, the standard still assumes a film-based workflow. That is why
there is reference to positive and negative platemaking.
Another debatable aspect of the standard is the variation of tone
curves for different screen meshes.
Now that CtP is almost universal, many people believe that color
characteristics of the overall process (files in, print out) should
not be dependent on these parameters. Instead, we should use TRCs to
obtain consistent appearance, regardless of the paper type, plates,
screening, etc.
I would be interested to hear other opinions on this question.
-Bill
Hi
This has been troubling me for a little while:
The TVI curves in the Altona Suite, A to F, especially curves B, C, D and E,
as applied to Paper type 3, Heatset web offset with the ISO web offset ICC
profile.
Surely if the ICC profile is based on a standard printing condition it will
only print at it's best if these conditions are matched on paper, Lab, TVI
etc.
So why are there four curves for this condition, and the uncoated printing
conditions, I understand and agree with the TVI 'increase' for the black, as
it is normally printed on the first unit. However surely the plates being
positive or negative is irrelevant to the ICC profile which is looking for
the correct TVI as measured on the printed sheet?
The difference between curve B, positive plate, paper type 3 on a 40% with a
TVI of 16% and curve D with a negative plate, paper type 3, and 40% with a
TVI of 22% is large. What does the ICC web offset profile need?
The plate type has no effect on the TVI required when printed on paper via
the ICC profile. Yes the plate type will effect this but should be
controlled by output curves at film production.
How do these curves apply to CtP?
Which is the correct/best curve for each ISO ICC profile?
This is easy to workout for ISO coated but not for the other 3 ISO standard
profiles.
Regards
Paul Sherfield
--
William B. Birkett <wbirkett(a)doplganger.com>
Color Engineer
Doppelganger, LLC - http://www.doplganger.com/
48799 Meadow Drive, Plymouth, MI 48170 (USA)
Cell: (734) 516-4790 Office: (734) 453-5134
6970
days inactive
7046
days old
eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com
6 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Age Bosma -
Karsten Krüger -
Neil Barstow -
Paul Sherfield -
William Birkett