Hi Juris, You could try to run a press-sheet where you set the press to a density a little too high in one side of the sheet and too low in the other side with an even distribution across the sheet. Then measure the solid primary colors across the sheet and find the Lab-values closest to the target. If these values are not close enough I don’t see how you could get any closer using these inks. Anyway you are pretty close already --- Best Regards Act IT A/S Erik Terkelsen Product Manager Tel: +45 3692 5660 Dir: +45 3692 5667 Fax: +45 8614 5300 Mail: erikt(a)act-it.dk Web: www.act-it.dk From: Magnus Sandströšm &lt;magnus.sandstrom(a)alfaprint.se&gt; Reply-To: &lt;eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com&gt; Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 22:02:58 +0100 To: &lt;eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com&gt; Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] printing to ISO. is this possible? Hi here is our values: Cyan:         55   -33   -53 Magenta:   49   74,5   -3 Yellow:      90   -3,5   91 Key:           17,5   1   1 And our cyan is a little red.. I think that you are close enough and recommend that you correct the proof the last bit against the press to get the top notch similarity. It shouldnt exeed ∆3 anyway. And your still printing ISO. Anyway, thats what we did. Using GMG Colorproof. Maybe someone else got another opinion? Regards Magnus Sandström bebris(a)jt.lv wrote: -- ________________________________________ Magnus Sandström Alfa Print AB Besöksadress: Cirkusgränd 2, Sundbyberg Post: Box 6003, 171 06 Solna Tel: 08 54 600 774 www.alfaprint.se <http://www.alfaprint.se>   _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en

Hi Juris, The ISO 12647-2 defines that the primary colors should be within a DeltaE of 5, so according to the standard it is "enough". --- Best Regards Act IT A/S Erik Terkelsen Product Manager Tel: +45 3692 5660 Dir: +45 3692 5667 Fax: +45 8614 5300 Mail: erikt(a)act-it.dk Web: www.act-it.dk From: &lt;bebris(a)jt.lv&gt; Reply-To: &lt;eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com&gt; Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:08:19 +0200 To: &lt;eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com&gt; Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] printing to ISO. is this possible? Hi Erik and everybody else, I did measurements from a press run like Erik are suggesting. So for Cyan higher or lower density will make Delta E increase. We have to hold density at 1.30-1.40 to get average Delta E of 4! Is it enough? I think that I will make a press run with different inks and try to get closer. regards, Juris Erik Terkelsen &lt;erikt(a)act-it.dk&gt; Sent by: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com 2007.11.08 23:39 Please respond to eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com To &lt;eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com&gt; cc Subject Re: [ECI-EN] printing to ISO. is this possible? Hi Juris, You could try to run a press-sheet where you set the press to a density a little too high in one side of the sheet and too low in the other side with an even distribution across the sheet. Then measure the solid primary colors across the sheet and find the Lab-values closest to the target. If these values are not close enough I don’t see how you could get any closer using these inks. Anyway you are pretty close already --- Best Regards Act IT A/S Erik Terkelsen Product Manager Tel: +45 3692 5660 Dir: +45 3692 5667 Fax: +45 8614 5300 Mail: erikt(a)act-it.dk Web: www.act-it.dk From: Magnus Sandströšm &lt;magnus.sandstrom(a)alfaprint.se&gt; Reply-To: &lt;eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com&gt; Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 22:02:58 +0100 To: &lt;eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com&gt; Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] printing to ISO. is this possible? Hi here is our values: Cyan: 55 -33 -53 Magenta: 49 74,5 -3 Yellow: 90 -3,5 91 Key: 17,5 1 1 And our cyan is a little red.. I think that you are close enough and recommend that you correct the proof the last bit against the press to get the top notch similarity. It shouldnt exeed ∆3 anyway. And your still printing ISO. Anyway, thats what we did. Using GMG Colorproof. Maybe someone else got another opinion? Regards Magnus Sandström bebris(a)jt.lv wrote: Hello all I am trying to match our sheet-fed press to ISO 12647-2 as close as possible. The best Lab numbers I can get for primary colors are (white backing): Cyan: 58,1 -34,7 -50,1 Magenta: 49,1 75 -2,9 Yellow: 89,3 -3,5 92,8 Black: 17,4 0,8 0,6 Numbers are close to ISO, but I would like to be closer. Specially Cyan and Yellow could be closer, but for that it looks like I have to change ink manufacturer. Q: Should I try to get closer or it's just a waste of time (hair-splitting)? Please, I need your opinion! BTW we make color proofs with ISOcoated_v2_efi.icc, and actually I'm trying to get my press closer to proof. But that's same as ISO. Thank you for your time! regards, Juris _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en <http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en> -- ________________________________________ Magnus Sandström Alfa Print AB Besöksadress: Cirkusgränd 2, Sundbyberg Post: Box 6003, 171 06 Solna Tel: 08 54 600 774 www.alfaprint.se <http://www.alfaprint.se> <http://www.alfaprint.se/> _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en <http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en> _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en

Hi Roger, I'm not blaming anyone for anything :-) Just telling Juris what the limits are to be within the standard. I'm a consultant, so there are no "my colors". However, running against the ISO-standard is not just a matter of Delta E for the primary colors. I have seen instances where close matches of delta E values for primary colors will result TVI out of range while you could get the TVI in range with higher Delta E deviations for the primaries. --- Best Regards Act IT A/S Erik Terkelsen Product Manager Tel: +45 3692 5660 Dir: +45 3692 5667 Fax: +45 8614 5300 Mail: erikt(a)act-it.dk Web: www.act-it.dk Can you blame Juris for trying to ge the colors closer? How close are colors, Erik? Roger Breton The ISO 12647-2 defines that 5, so according to the --- Best Act IT A/S Erik Product Manager Tel: +45 3692 Dir: +45 3692 Fax: +45 8614 5300 Mail: Web: From: &lt;bebris(a)jt.lv&gt; Reply-To: Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:08:19 +0200 To: Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] printing to ISO. is Hi Erik and everybody else, I did measurements from a higher or lower density will at 1.30-1.40 to get average Is it enough? I think that I will make a press run with closer. regards, Juris Erik Terkelsen Sent by: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com Please respond eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com To &lt;eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com&gt; cc Su Re: [ECI-EN] printing to ISO. is this possible? Hi Juris, You little an across If closer Anyway you are pretty close already --- Best Regards Act Erik Product Manager Tel: +45 3692 5660 Dir: +45 Fax: Mail: erikt(a)act-it.dk Web: From: Magnus Reply-To: Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 22:02:58 +0100 To: Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] printing to ISO. is Hi here is our values: Cyan: 55 -33 -53 Magenta: Yellow: 90 -3,5 91 Key: 17,5 1 1 And I think that you are close enough and recommend the last bit against the press to get the top exeed ∆3 anyway. And your still printing Anyway, Maybe someone else Regards Magnus Sandström bebris(a)jt.lv wrote: I possible. Cyan: Magenta: 49,1 Black: Numbers are close to ISO, but I would like to be Yellow could be closer, but for that it looks manufacturer. Q: Should I try to get closer or (hair-splitting)? Please, I need your opinion! BTW we make to get my Thank you Juris _______________________________________________ ECI-EN ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/l <http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en> -- > ________________________________________ Magnus Sandström Alfa Besöksadress: Cirkusgränd 2, Sundbyberg Post: Box 6003, 171 06 Tel: 08 54 600 774 www.alfaprint.se <http://www.alfaprint.se> > _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/l <http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en> _____ > __________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/l _______________________________________________ ECI-EN > > mailing > list ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/l _______________________________________________ ECI-EN > mailing > list ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/l _______________________________________________ ECI-EN ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/l

Do you use the Media Standards Print 2006 publication as available on the bvdm (www.bvdm.org) web site? It's in English (2006 version) and covers a lot of topics as discussed here Henk

At 09:09 12-11-2007 +0100, you wrote: You have to be aware that (sometimes) it's pretty difficult to obtain a very straight linear plate and a very precise curve for your tonal correction. Sometimes the addressebility (lightsource spot and resolution ratio) and peaks are difficult to control. In the end it's more important that you get a correct end result. The Fogra tools to check your CTP are important. Fogra's warnings on the subject linear/tonal are (sometimes) even more important. Henk