10:13 a.m.
Hello
Is anybody seeing this issue?
When using the Lab values to process control a press to ISO 12647/2-2004 I
have found, on a number of occasions, that the cyan ink is 4 to 8 delta E
out. The other process colours are usually below 2.
These are ISO standard inks from major manufactories.
I am controlling the process with an GM SpectroEye, using the BestMatch
function, and the ISO data as the reference.
I am then checking the process colour differences using Alwans Color Pursuit
colour workflow analyse tool.
Are these figures for the cyan ink common, are they acceptable. I do not
think so on a 'blue'.
Regards
Paul Sherfield
The Missing Horse Consultancy Ltd
Telephone: 01442 871752
Mobile: 07899 906385
Apple Solutions Expert-Print & Publishing
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11:01 a.m.
New subject: Cyan ink ISO Lab values not correct
Hi Paul,
We have just completed ISO 12647 compliance for the TSO (The Stationery
Office) as part of the Pantone Printer Accreditation Program.
We had no trouble achieving ISO 12647/2-2004 I conformance on the cyan. I am
afraid I can't remember the ink manufacturer but if you would like these
details I can get them for you.
Two areas to look at maybe the set up of the SpectroEye and the paper stock.
We have recently had an issue where a slight change in the paper stock has
had quite a dramatic effect on the cyan.
We run regular course on ISO 12647-2 entitled "Using ISO 12647-2 in Print &
Design" which deals with the set up and workflow required to conform to ISO
12647. The next course takes place on 26th & 27th April.
If you need any further help please let me know.
Regards
Ian Reid
Bodoni Systems Ltd
Key Solutions for Digital Imaging
http://www.bodoni.co.uk
ian.r(a)bodoni.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0) 1895 825776
Fax: +44 (0) 1895 825994
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Sherfield" <paul(a)missinghorsecons.co.uk>
To: "eci-en-request(a)lists.transmedia.de" <eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:13 AM
Subject: [ECI-EN] Re: Cyan ink ISO Lab values not correct
Hello
Is anybody seeing this issue?
When using the Lab values to process control a press to ISO 12647/2-2004 I
have found, on a number of occasions, that the cyan ink is 4 to 8 delta E
out. The other process colours are usually below 2.
These are ISO standard inks from major manufactories.
I am controlling the process with an GM SpectroEye, using the BestMatch
function, and the ISO data as the reference.
I am then checking the process colour differences using Alwans Color
Pursuit
colour workflow analyse tool.
Are these figures for the cyan ink common, are they acceptable. I do not
think so on a 'blue'.
Regards
Paul Sherfield
The Missing Horse Consultancy Ltd
Telephone: 01442 871752
Mobile: 07899 906385
Apple Solutions Expert-Print & Publishing
This email and any attachments may be confidential and are intended solely
for the use of addressee. If you are not the intended recipient of this
message, any disclosure, copying or other distribution is strictly
prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this message in
error,
please notify the sender and delete all copies from
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amendment.
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11:20 a.m.
New subject: Cyan ink ISO Lab values not correct
Ian Reid wrote
Hi Paul,
We have just completed ISO 12647 compliance for the TSO (The Stationery
Office) as part of the Pantone Printer Accreditation Program.
We had no trouble achieving ISO 12647/2-2004 I conformance on the cyan. I am
afraid I can't remember the ink manufacturer but if you would like these
details I can get them for you.
I usually have had no problems, but this has now
happens twice in the UK and
once with ISO inks from a Far East printer.
Two areas to look at maybe the set up of the
SpectroEye and the paper stock.
I 'think' I know how to use the BestMatch
function, and the paper stocks
were OK.
We have recently had an issue where a slight change in
the paper stock has
had quite a dramatic effect on the cyan.
Interesting, what do you call a slight
change?
We run regular course on ISO 12647-2 entitled
"Using ISO 12647-2 in Print &
Design" which deals with the set up and workflow required to conform to ISO
12647. The next course takes place on 26th & 27th April.
If you need any help
with the courses, feel free to ask ;-)
If you need any further help please let me know.
Yes, a point on the Pantone involvement in ISO 12647/2? When are Pantone
going to publish a Solid to Process guide that reflects the ISO standard
printing conditions for, say, type 1 and 2 papers. The current Pantone to
Euro guide matches no known printing conditions, Euro or ISO!
Regards
Ian Reid
Bodoni Systems Ltd
Regards
Paul Sherfield
The Missing Horse Consultancy Ltd
Telephone: 01442 871752
Mobile: 07899 906385
Apple Solutions Expert-Print & Publishing
This email and any attachments may be confidential and are intended solely
for the use of addressee. If you are not the intended recipient of this
message, any disclosure, copying or other distribution is strictly
prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error,
please notify the sender and delete all copies from your system. Email may
be susceptible to data corruption, interception and unauthorised amendment.
We do not accept liability for any such corruption, interception or
amendment or the consequences thereof. We do not accept liability for any
action or inaction by the recipient as a result of advice or information
contained within this email.
12:50 a.m.
New subject: Pantone ISO (was Cyan ink ISO Lab values)
At 10:20 21-3-2005 +0000, Paul Sherfield wrote:
Yes, a point on the Pantone involvement in ISO 12647/2?
When are Pantone
going to publish a Solid to Process guide that reflects the ISO standard
printing conditions for, say, type 1 and 2 papers. The current Pantone to
Euro guide matches no known printing conditions, Euro or ISO!
Paul.
John Stanzione (Pantone US) gave this information.:
In a separate e-mail he confirmed that the Pantone inks used for both
Process Guides (US and EURO) are ISO 2846-1 compliant.
You can see that Pantone Euro printed material does not exactly match ISO
12647-2:2004.
I think Pantone will deliver Pantone ISO CMYK Process Guides if we insist
on that.
That however means that all parties have to agree that they will use these
standards.
Ask your local printers association and prepress or premedia association to
agree on the implementation of the ISO 12647-2 workflow.
If all agree Pantone will follow. They are marketing driven and will
(finally) deliver what their customers ask.
Right now it seems to early for them to add another CMYK ISO Process Color
Guide to their program. Their distribution channel does not want to
evangelize new workflows and standards. Right now that seems to complicated
for them.
Pantone can be convinced by a large ISO 12747 user base.
So let's promote that!
Regards, Henk
At 08:32 11-2-2005 -0500, John Stanzione wrote:
The CMYK data (In the US) is based on the PANTONE solid
to process guide
coated. Thus, the values are based on the workflow, which is clearly
outlined in the copy pages of the printed Guide. While the inkset used
meets ISO requirements for SWOP, the workflow does not necessarily conform
to all components of SWOP.
Here is the information from the printed Guide (US):
Color Run Sequence and Screen angles:
K @ 45 degrees
C @15 degrees
M @ 75 degrees
Y @ 0 degrees
Wet Ink Target Densities:
Black 1.75
Cyan 1.30
Magenta 1.42
Yellow 1.00
Line Screen:
175 lines/inch
(69 lines/cm)
Paper stock:
#1 grade 60 lb. gloss coated cover stock
Dot Gain Target Measurements
25% 50% 75%
Black 19 25 18
Cyan 14 24 15
Mag 14 21 15
Yel 12 19 14
As promised, here is the workflow information from the PANTONE solid to
process guide coated EURO. This is the workflow that was used to produce
the EURO CMYK simulation values found in the PANTONE ColorCue:
Print rotation and Screen angles:
Black @ 45 degrees
Cyan @ 15 degrees
Magenta @ 75 degrees
Yellow @ 90 degrees
Wet Ink Target Densities
Measurements were taken
with non-polarized ISO
Staus T reflection density filters
Black 1.80
Cyan 1.52
Magenta 1.50
Yellow 1.00
Line screen
69 lines/cm
Paper Stock
162 g/m2 coated stock
Dot Gain Target Measurements
40% Middle Tone
17% +/- 3% CMY
18% +/- 3% K
80% Shadow Tone
12% +/- 2% CMYK
I hope you find this information helpful.
Best regards,
John Stanzione
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3 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Henk Gianotten -
Ian Reid -
Paul Sherfield