10:07 a.m.
Good morning.
I was wondering if somebody else already experienced and solved this problem, as well.
We built, dedicated to creative agencies, a specific color settings and pdf export couple
for certain production files in which we manage ourselves the RGB to CMYK conversion. It’s
almost a late binding workflow before sending the final PDF to our printers.
So, all raster images remain in a specific RGB color space while Benday and vectors are
still in CMYK.
So far, we did have any issue, but we recently received a document with a Spot Color
template in it.
And when we checked it, it appeared it had been tagged on the Alternate Color Space with
an ICC profile (no more specific indication).
We tried to find why without any success.
But we also experienced the same after many tests in In Design and Illustrator by creating
a simple vector shape to which we added a Spot Color from the latest Pantone library.
The PDF export has no color conversion except an OI and OC for the PDF itself.
And despite all the color swatches we use, the result is equal.
The only difference lies when we use a PDF Export Preset which converts colors to the
destination.
In such a way, the Spot Color uses the CMYK mode as by default Alternate Color Space.
How is it possible?
Would you have any idea?
Thanks!
Axel
UBISOFT | Axel ROBERT |Senior Manager, Prepress & Quality
Ubisoft encourages work/life balance and embraces flexibility. My workday may look
different than your workday.
I have sent this message at a time that suits my work pattern, but it is not my
expectation that you read, respond or
follow up on this email outside your working hours.
10:28 a.m.
Hi Axel,
I am aware of such an issue.
Usually you get this when
- the spot color is defined with CMYK as "base" color in Indesign
- you use an export setting that tags all colors (e.g. when using the PDF/X-3 export
setting)
and I am sure, that there other possibilities as well.
best
Peter
On 10.06.2022, at 10:07, Axel Robert
<axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com> wrote:
Good morning.
I was wondering if somebody else already experienced and solved this problem, as well.
We built, dedicated to creative agencies, a specific color settings and pdf export couple
for certain production files in which we manage ourselves the RGB to CMYK conversion. It’s
almost a late binding workflow before sending the final PDF to our printers.
So, all raster images remain in a specific RGB color space while Benday and vectors are
still in CMYK.
So far, we did have any issue, but we recently received a document with a Spot Color
template in it.
And when we checked it, it appeared it had been tagged on the Alternate Color Space with
an ICC profile (no more specific indication).
We tried to find why without any success.
But we also experienced the same after many tests in In Design and Illustrator by
creating a simple vector shape to which we added a Spot Color from the latest Pantone
library.
The PDF export has no color conversion except an OI and OC for the PDF itself.
And despite all the color swatches we use, the result is equal.
The only difference lies when we use a PDF Export Preset which converts colors to the
destination.
In such a way, the Spot Color uses the CMYK mode as by default Alternate Color Space.
How is it possible?
Would you have any idea?
Thanks!
Axel
UBISOFT | Axel ROBERT |Senior Manager, Prepress & Quality
Ubisoft encourages work/life balance and embraces flexibility. My workday may look
different than your workday.
I have sent this message at a time that suits my work pattern, but it is not my
expectation that you read, respond or
follow up on this email outside your working hours.
_______________________________________________
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<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
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%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
10:46 a.m.
Guten Morgen Peter.
Wie geht Es Ihnen ?
Thank you for your quick answer confirming this behavior.
I’m not crazy and that’s a good starting point.
I used a PDF/X-4 export in which no color conversions are allowed, just an output
condition name.
I tried with the latest Pantone color swatch library available in In Design and
Illustrator aka PANTONE+ Solid Coated.
I exported the complete library in CXF and saw it was possible to obtain a Lab or a RGB
(sRGB) file.
So, I don’t know what mechanism Adobe uses for choosing the proper one.
Sincerely.
Axel
From: Peter KLEINHEIDER <peter(a)inpetto.cc>
Reply to: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com"
<eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
Date: Friday 10 June 2022 at 10:30
To: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com" <eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
Cc: Vincent GUILLE <vincent.guille(a)ubisoft.com>
Subject: [ECI-EN] Re: Spot Colors | Alternate Color Space behaviour | PDF export.
Hi Axel,
I am aware of such an issue.
Usually you get this when
- the spot color is defined with CMYK as "base" color in Indesign
- you use an export setting that tags all colors (e.g. when using the PDF/X-3 export
setting)
and I am sure, that there other possibilities as well.
best
Peter
On 10.06.2022, at 10:07, Axel Robert
<axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> wrote:
Good morning.
I was wondering if somebody else already experienced and solved this problem, as well.
We built, dedicated to creative agencies, a specific color settings and pdf export couple
for certain production files in which we manage ourselves the RGB to CMYK conversion. It’s
almost a late binding workflow before sending the final PDF to our printers.
So, all raster images remain in a specific RGB color space while Benday and vectors are
still in CMYK.
So far, we did have any issue, but we recently received a document with a Spot Color
template in it.
And when we checked it, it appeared it had been tagged on the Alternate Color Space with
an ICC profile (no more specific indication).
We tried to find why without any success.
But we also experienced the same after many tests in In Design and Illustrator by creating
a simple vector shape to which we added a Spot Color from the latest Pantone library.
The PDF export has no color conversion except an OI and OC for the PDF itself.
And despite all the color swatches we use, the result is equal.
The only difference lies when we use a PDF Export Preset which converts colors to the
destination.
In such a way, the Spot Color uses the CMYK mode as by default Alternate Color Space.
How is it possible?
Would you have any idea?
Thanks!
Axel
UBISOFT | Axel ROBERT |Senior Manager, Prepress & Quality
Ubisoft encourages work/life balance and embraces flexibility. My workday may look
different than your workday.
I have sent this message at a time that suits my work pattern, but it is not my
expectation that you read, respond or
follow up on this email outside your working hours.
_______________________________________________
ECI-EN mailing list --
eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
To unsubscribe send an email to
eci-en-leave@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-leave@lists.callassoftware.com>
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
11:18 a.m.
Hi Axel, hi Peter
Made some tests and I can’t say this is an issue or it is the correct/expected behavior, I
am not an expert… but so it is… when you have an object defined with PANTONE (not
necessarily defined with CMYK) and you export to PDF/X-4 with No Conversion, you end up
with the Alternate Color Space: ICC Profile – but as far as I know, this ICC profile
refers to the Lab D50 (Adobe) and the Lab values for this separation must be stored
somewhere in the PDF because if you preflight the PDF you can read them !!
And as you stated, if you export to PDF/X-4 with Color Conversion (Convert to Destination)
you will get the Alternate Color Space: CMYK and you’ll see the Alternate Color Values
for CMYK.
I am sure that someone else will put more light on it ;
Best regards,
ferran
De: Axel Robert [mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com]
Enviado el: viernes, 10 de junio de 2022 10:47
Para: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
CC: Vincent Guille
Asunto: [ECI-EN] Re: Spot Colors | Alternate Color Space behaviour | PDF export.
Guten Morgen Peter.
Wie geht Es Ihnen ?
Thank you for your quick answer confirming this behavior.
I’m not crazy and that’s a good starting point.
I used a PDF/X-4 export in which no color conversions are allowed, just an output
condition name.
I tried with the latest Pantone color swatch library available in In Design and
Illustrator aka PANTONE+ Solid Coated.
I exported the complete library in CXF and saw it was possible to obtain a Lab or a RGB
(sRGB) file.
So, I don’t know what mechanism Adobe uses for choosing the proper one.
Sincerely.
Axel
From: Peter KLEINHEIDER <peter(a)inpetto.cc>
Reply to: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com"
<eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
Date: Friday 10 June 2022 at 10:30
To: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com" <eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
Cc: Vincent GUILLE <vincent.guille(a)ubisoft.com>
Subject: [ECI-EN] Re: Spot Colors | Alternate Color Space behaviour | PDF export.
Hi Axel,
I am aware of such an issue.
Usually you get this when
- the spot color is defined with CMYK as "base" color in Indesign
- you use an export setting that tags all colors (e.g. when using the PDF/X-3 export
setting)
and I am sure, that there other possibilities as well.
best
Peter
On 10.06.2022, at 10:07, Axel Robert
<axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> wrote:
Good morning.
I was wondering if somebody else already experienced and solved this problem, as well.
We built, dedicated to creative agencies, a specific color settings and pdf export couple
for certain production files in which we manage ourselves the RGB to CMYK conversion. It’s
almost a late binding workflow before sending the final PDF to our printers.
So, all raster images remain in a specific RGB color space while Benday and vectors are
still in CMYK.
So far, we did have any issue, but we recently received a document with a Spot Color
template in it.
And when we checked it, it appeared it had been tagged on the Alternate Color Space with
an ICC profile (no more specific indication).
We tried to find why without any success.
But we also experienced the same after many tests in In Design and Illustrator by creating
a simple vector shape to which we added a Spot Color from the latest Pantone library.
The PDF export has no color conversion except an OI and OC for the PDF itself.
And despite all the color swatches we use, the result is equal.
The only difference lies when we use a PDF Export Preset which converts colors to the
destination.
In such a way, the Spot Color uses the CMYK mode as by default Alternate Color Space.
How is it possible?
Would you have any idea?
Thanks!
Axel
UBISOFT | Axel ROBERT |Senior Manager, Prepress & Quality
Ubisoft encourages work/life balance and embraces flexibility. My workday may look
different than your workday.
I have sent this message at a time that suits my work pattern, but it is not my
expectation that you read, respond or
follow up on this email outside your working hours.
_______________________________________________
ECI-EN mailing list --
eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
To unsubscribe send an email to
eci-en-leave@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-leave@lists.callassoftware.com>
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
11:36 a.m.
Hi Ferran.
Thank you to also spend some time to test on your own.
This is indeed a weird result because when the PDF is checked for a PDF/X-4 compliance
(whatever the tool used), an error occurs on it.
The Spot color should be in Lab, Device CMYK or Device gray for the Alternate Color Space
and not in Lab according to the last GWG profile for example.
Regards.
Axel
From: "fpenalver(a)litografiaroses.com" <fpenalver(a)litografiaroses.com>
Reply to: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com"
<eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
Date: Friday 10 June 2022 at 11:21
To: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com" <eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
Cc: Vincent GUILLE <vincent.guille(a)ubisoft.com>
Subject: [ECI-EN] Re: Spot Colors | Alternate Color Space behaviour | PDF export.
You don't often get email from fpenalver(a)litografiaroses.com. Learn why this is
important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
Hi Axel, hi Peter
Made some tests and I can’t say this is an issue or it is the correct/expected behavior, I
am not an expert… but so it is… when you have an object defined with PANTONE (not
necessarily defined with CMYK) and you export to PDF/X-4 with No Conversion, you end up
with the Alternate Color Space: ICC Profile – but as far as I know, this ICC profile
refers to the Lab D50 (Adobe) and the Lab values for this separation must be stored
somewhere in the PDF because if you preflight the PDF you can read them !!
And as you stated, if you export to PDF/X-4 with Color Conversion (Convert to Destination)
you will get the Alternate Color Space: CMYK and you’ll see the Alternate Color Values
for CMYK.
I am sure that someone else will put more light on it ;
Best regards,
ferran
De: Axel Robert [mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com]
Enviado el: viernes, 10 de junio de 2022 10:47
Para: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
CC: Vincent Guille
Asunto: [ECI-EN] Re: Spot Colors | Alternate Color Space behaviour | PDF export.
Guten Morgen Peter.
Wie geht Es Ihnen ?
Thank you for your quick answer confirming this behavior.
I’m not crazy and that’s a good starting point.
I used a PDF/X-4 export in which no color conversions are allowed, just an output
condition name.
I tried with the latest Pantone color swatch library available in In Design and
Illustrator aka PANTONE+ Solid Coated.
I exported the complete library in CXF and saw it was possible to obtain a Lab or a RGB
(sRGB) file.
So, I don’t know what mechanism Adobe uses for choosing the proper one.
Sincerely.
Axel
From: Peter KLEINHEIDER <peter(a)inpetto.cc>
Reply to: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com"
<eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
Date: Friday 10 June 2022 at 10:30
To: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com" <eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
Cc: Vincent GUILLE <vincent.guille(a)ubisoft.com>
Subject: [ECI-EN] Re: Spot Colors | Alternate Color Space behaviour | PDF export.
Hi Axel,
I am aware of such an issue.
Usually you get this when
- the spot color is defined with CMYK as "base" color in Indesign
- you use an export setting that tags all colors (e.g. when using the PDF/X-3 export
setting)
and I am sure, that there other possibilities as well.
best
Peter
On 10.06.2022, at 10:07, Axel Robert
<axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> wrote:
Good morning.
I was wondering if somebody else already experienced and solved this problem, as well.
We built, dedicated to creative agencies, a specific color settings and pdf export couple
for certain production files in which we manage ourselves the RGB to CMYK conversion. It’s
almost a late binding workflow before sending the final PDF to our printers.
So, all raster images remain in a specific RGB color space while Benday and vectors are
still in CMYK.
So far, we did have any issue, but we recently received a document with a Spot Color
template in it.
And when we checked it, it appeared it had been tagged on the Alternate Color Space with
an ICC profile (no more specific indication).
We tried to find why without any success.
But we also experienced the same after many tests in In Design and Illustrator by creating
a simple vector shape to which we added a Spot Color from the latest Pantone library.
The PDF export has no color conversion except an OI and OC for the PDF itself.
And despite all the color swatches we use, the result is equal.
The only difference lies when we use a PDF Export Preset which converts colors to the
destination.
In such a way, the Spot Color uses the CMYK mode as by default Alternate Color Space.
How is it possible?
Would you have any idea?
Thanks!
Axel
UBISOFT | Axel ROBERT |Senior Manager, Prepress & Quality
Ubisoft encourages work/life balance and embraces flexibility. My workday may look
different than your workday.
I have sent this message at a time that suits my work pattern, but it is not my
expectation that you read, respond or
follow up on this email outside your working hours.
_______________________________________________
ECI-EN mailing list --
eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
To unsubscribe send an email to
eci-en-leave@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-leave@lists.callassoftware.com>
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
12:27 p.m.
Hi Axel,
I'd need to get this example IND Document and the exported PDF to analyse the issue.
Only if I have them can I confirm my suspicion.
best
Peter
On 10.06.2022, at 10:07, Axel Robert
<axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com> wrote:
Good morning.
I was wondering if somebody else already experienced and solved this problem, as well.
We built, dedicated to creative agencies, a specific color settings and pdf export couple
for certain production files in which we manage ourselves the RGB to CMYK conversion. It’s
almost a late binding workflow before sending the final PDF to our printers.
So, all raster images remain in a specific RGB color space while Benday and vectors are
still in CMYK.
So far, we did have any issue, but we recently received a document with a Spot Color
template in it.
And when we checked it, it appeared it had been tagged on the Alternate Color Space with
an ICC profile (no more specific indication).
We tried to find why without any success.
But we also experienced the same after many tests in In Design and Illustrator by
creating a simple vector shape to which we added a Spot Color from the latest Pantone
library.
The PDF export has no color conversion except an OI and OC for the PDF itself.
And despite all the color swatches we use, the result is equal.
The only difference lies when we use a PDF Export Preset which converts colors to the
destination.
In such a way, the Spot Color uses the CMYK mode as by default Alternate Color Space.
How is it possible?
Would you have any idea?
Thanks!
Axel
UBISOFT | Axel ROBERT |Senior Manager, Prepress & Quality
Ubisoft encourages work/life balance and embraces flexibility. My workday may look
different than your workday.
I have sent this message at a time that suits my work pattern, but it is not my
expectation that you read, respond or
follow up on this email outside your working hours.
_______________________________________________
ECI-EN mailing list -- eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
To unsubscribe send an email to eci-en-leave(a)lists.callassoftware.com
<mailto:eci-en-leave@lists.callassoftware.com>
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days old
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5 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Axel Robert -
fpenalver＠litografiaroses.com -
Peter Kleinheider