Re : [ECI-EN] Adobe and the Fogra ISO profiles

-------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:17:41 -0700 From: Peter Constable <pconstab(a)adobe.com> Subject: Re: Fwd: ECI ISO Coated vs. Adobe Europe ISO Coated FOGRA 27 To: Henk Gianotten <henk(a)gianotten.com> Hi Henk, Your Question #1 - "When does Adobe deliver the ECI-profiles as part of their standard profile package in CS2?" We currently are trying to support the FOGRA data sets that seem relevant for our users. We looked into supplying the ECI profiles during out development of the Adobe FOGRA27 profile but there were several issues that we could not resolve. These were comments I posted on the Adobe Pre-release forum as reasons for creating our own profiles: ************* 1 - Adobe gamut mapping is very smooth. During testing of non-Adobe profiles, we noticed some poor smoothness of perceptual mapping in certain areas of the color gamut. 2 - Perceptual gamut mapping of Adobe profiles are consistent with gamut mapping of many commonly used press profiling applications. This leads to better consistency in workflows. We noticed that the ECI profiles' perceptual mapping was significantly different than the perceptual mapping of our current set of profiles (lighter in the mid-tones). Question: Is this a preferred perceptual mapping in the EU compared to the Gretag/Adobe type rendering?. 3 - User's are aware of Adobe's gamut mapping strategies (they're in our other profiles). The new (Adobe) Europe FOGRA27 profile shares these traits reducing unexpected surprises when separations are reviewed. 4 - We are not required to license Heidelberg's IP to distribute the profile. 5 - ECI's profile creates a very long black starting at 0%. We have been told that users like to see "cleaner" highlight color without K. Our black starts at 30% of total ink.

My answer to point 1,2 and 3: I convert an Adobe RGB image black of 0.0.0. to 'EuropeISOCoatedFOGRA27.icc' in Photoshop CS using either Perceptual,Relative, Saturation or Absolute and all with and without Black Point Compensation the black point is always C86 M85 Y79 K100 / Total Ink=350%. but when I convert Adobe RGB images to custom made CMYK profiles the black point always changes? I have also noticed the changes with all ISO profile from ECI. I use the FOGRA27 L.A.B. Values to create a new profile with total ink of 350 by using ProfileMaker, Basiccolor Print4C, Printopen and Monaco. I have the same result in Perceptual but in Relative black Point Comp, the result is different in the grey balance and the total ink density. Does this happen because of the CMM from Adobe or something more magic!!!! Point 5: I Œm a big fan of a long black separation, so this is not a issue for me. The long black gives the printer a very good grey balance stability. For generic profile it would be wise to have a black start at 30%. Regards, Yves Roussange