ISO 3664 and ISO 12646 -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: eci-en-admin(a)lists.transmedia.de [mailto:eci-en-admin@lists.transmedia.de]Im Auftrag von Per Savander Gesendet: 11. Dezember 2003 09:00 An: eci-en(a)lists.transmedia.de Betreff: [ECI-EN] ISO 3664 and ISO 12646 Could somebody please shine some light on the application of the standards regarding light conditions in the field of prepress, press and photography. The two standards ISO3664 and ISO 12346 are appearantly the main source of information. I will be writing an article to a magazine about the light and environment in color critical workflows, and would like to have the facts right (who would not;-) ISO 3664 is the basis and more general of the two, ISO 12646 pertains to soft proofing especially and with a view to a comparison between screen and hardcopy. The lkatter needs to be illumniated somehow and this is why a certain repetition is unavoidable. The other option would have been tor ISO 12646 to refer such details to 3664, so that you have to buy 2 standards for full information. Light quality is ths same in ISO 3664 and ISO 12646 -D50 -CRI>90 -Metamerism index<4 Is the RA-index (should be over 90) the same as the tube-manufacturer´s class A of tubes? Sorry, ask the tube manuf. Would not halogen-lamps be better than tubes due to the more even spectrum, tough I have not found a true D50 halogen (closest Solux is 4700K) three band tubes specially selected and other measures in the booth can meet the stringent requirements of 3664. Ambient surroundings are the same in ISO 3664 and ISO 12646 -Color evaluation on monitor ambient light 32 rather than 64 lux , Monitors are a lot dimmer than viewing booths! -Indirect lighting -neutral matte munsell 8 surroundings -monitor hoods to avoid glare Proof evaluation are the same in ISO 3664 and ISO 12646 1500-2500 lux (which is prefferable?) 2000 lx by all means Monitor whitepoint is not the same in ISO 3664 and ISO 12646 ISO 3665 monitor whitepoint D65, 75-100 cd/m2 this is meant for single viewing, not for comparison with hardcopies which MUST be viewed under 5000 K ISO 12646 monitor whitepoint D50, 80-120 cd/m2 , recent monitors give more light, LDC-TFT's are even better -what should be used, D65 or D50 (we know the problem with D50-too yellow, D65 sometimes too cold) 5000 K for comp, for single viewing its not so important and intensity may be a stronger reason to opt for 6500 K. Colour memory is so bad that this lapse is not punished anyway. -we have made some tests with LCD:s and noticed that D50 can give a better match than D65 (to a D50 output profiled proof matched in D50). No wonder -people often ask me why software vendors recommend D65 monitor whitepoint tough proofing boxes are D50. Warum? see above, in other fields D65n is recommended for viewing. But NOT graphic arts. -many non-icc color matchers use D65 for industry color matching and even ink-mixing. - why? see above -any standard-based recommendations on black level luminance on monitors? -when will the 12346 be final? It will come out mid-2004, the project leader was Mr. Tony Johnson, Techn. Secr. of ICC, +, + Regards Fred Dolezalek, chair ISO TC 130 Graphic Technology FOGRA, Graphic Techn. Research Association . dolezalek at fogra.org Tel. +49-89-43182-311, Fax +49-89-43182-100 PO. Box 80 04 69, D-81604 Muenchen, Germany Streitfeldstr. 19, D-81673 Muenchen, Germany Well, there was many questions for all you out there, and I wish that you cold give some fact-based answers. Especially the calibration and profiling of monitors is a field where there is a lot of questions around about the whitepoint and luminances. When we add the difficulty to match LCD:s (with ICC-profiles, not editing them) of different vendors with eacother, the unawareness seems to be quite extensive even among the pros. Thank you & kindest regards, p e r -- Per Savander, PrePress Center Oy, Turunlinnantie 8, 00930 Helsinki FINLAND tel: +358 (0)9-34364020 GSM: +358 (0)50-5639200 fax: +358 (0)9-3445455 http://www.prepress-center.fi -Dealer of computer, software and peripheral solutions for graphic arts and visual digital communications http://www.prepress-center.fi/icc -Solutions for icc color-management and workflow color control http://www.prepress-studio.fi -Training and consulting for graphic arts and visual digital communications