3:44 p.m.
The concerns some have in regards to the ISO_Coatedv2_eci profile
revolve around issues of gamut mapping and smoothness, in particular out
of gamut blues tend to reproduce rather purplish when converted using
this profile with the relative/Absolute rendering intents (not so much
with perceptual). This issue isn't always manifested in images, but it
can be a concern in some cases. There are other sources of profiles
created from the Fogra39 dataset (www.colormanagement.org for one) that
minimize this issue, or you could create your own if you have the means
and if you deem this problematic for you.
_______________________________________
Michael Eddington | North American Color, Inc.
QA Manager | Gracol G7 Certified Expert
5960 S. Sprinkle Road | Portage, MI 49002
P. (269) 323-0552 | F. (269) 323-0190
meddington(a)nac-mi.com | www.nac-mi.com | www.nac1to1.com |
www.photo360.com
>> Hello
>>
>> I'm working as free lance in France, i've got a scitex scan and an
>> Epson 4800 with a best Designer for printer.
>> I work as long as possible in RGB and i convert at the end in CMYK,
>> i used euroscale coated and changed for isocoated ECI 2 years ago
>> and it seemed to be better.
>> But today i've heard that the isocoated and new isocoated V2 wasn't
>> a good profil for converted my RGB imaged (working space eci RGB
>> V2) in CMYK ? and that it's just a profil of "simulation" for the
>> printer !
>>
>> Is it true ? and should i use a profil like the new isocoated
>> frogra39 for the coated paper i use generaly.
>>
>> I've made a lot of test and print a lot of book without any problem
>> with a lot of printer, i was estonished.
>>
>> Can you help me ?
>>
>> sinceraly, bruno
1:48 a.m.
New subject: RGB to CMYK
The concerns some have in regards to the
ISO_Coatedv2_eci profile
revolve around issues of gamut mapping and smoothness, in particular out
of gamut blues tend to reproduce rather purplish when converted using
this profile with the relative/Absolute rendering intents (not so much
with perceptual).
That bad? You know this breaks my heart because ISO_Coatedv2 is built using
PrintOpen :(
Michael Eddington | North American Color, Inc.
Roger Breton
8:29 a.m.
New subject: RGB to CMYK
Anyone tried to "re-calculate" the ISOcoated v2 with Binuscan
software? Or is that not allowed? (Looks pretty good though..) :)
/ Magnus
5 feb 2008 kl. 01.48 skrev Roger Breton:
The concerns
some have in regards to the ISO_Coatedv2_eci profile
revolve around issues of gamut mapping and smoothness, in
particular out
of gamut blues tend to reproduce rather purplish when converted using
this profile with the relative/Absolute rendering intents (not so
much
with perceptual).
That bad? You know this breaks my heart because ISO_Coatedv2 is
built using
PrintOpen :(
Michael Eddington | North American Color, Inc.
Roger Breton
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ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com
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8:48 a.m.
New subject: RGB to CMYK
I´ve downloaded the profiles and checked them out. Out of gamut blues
are really much better, but the greens and reds are worse.
These profiles can defently be very useful.
Thanks for the tip!
Den 4. feb.. 2008 kl. 15.44 skrev Mike Eddington:
The concerns some have in regards to the
ISO_Coatedv2_eci profile
revolve around issues of gamut mapping and smoothness, in particular
out
of gamut blues tend to reproduce rather purplish when converted using
this profile with the relative/Absolute rendering intents (not so much
with perceptual). This issue isn't always manifested in images, but it
can be a concern in some cases. There are other sources of profiles
created from the Fogra39 dataset (www.colormanagement.org for one)
that
minimize this issue, or you could create your own if you have the
means
and if you deem this problematic for you.
_______________________________________
Michael Eddington | North American Color, Inc.
QA Manager | Gracol G7 Certified Expert
5960 S. Sprinkle Road | Portage, MI 49002
P. (269) 323-0552 | F. (269) 323-0190
meddington(a)nac-mi.com | www.nac-mi.com | www.nac1to1.com |
www.photo360.com
>> Hello
>>
>> I'm working as free lance in France, i've got a scitex scan and an
>> Epson 4800 with a best Designer for printer.
>> I work as long as possible in RGB and i convert at the end in CMYK,
>> i used euroscale coated and changed for isocoated ECI 2 years ago
>> and it seemed to be better.
>> But today i've heard that the isocoated and new isocoated V2 wasn't
>> a good profil for converted my RGB imaged (working space eci RGB
>> V2) in CMYK ? and that it's just a profil of "simulation" for the
>> printer !
>>
>> Is it true ? and should i use a profil like the new isocoated
>> frogra39 for the coated paper i use generaly.
>>
>> I've made a lot of test and print a lot of book without any problem
>> with a lot of printer, i was estonished.
>>
>> Can you help me ?
>>
>> sinceraly, bruno
_______________________________________________
ECI-EN mailing list
ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com
http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en 
9:04 a.m.
New subject: RGB to CMYK
Dear all,
the profile ISOcoated_v2_eci was build with Heidelberg's PrintOpen 5.2. Before
publishing the profile a lot of tests were made. ECI made also some comparisons with
profiles from other vendors. The final decision was for the PrintOpen profile because from
an overall point of view this profile has some more advantages than disadvantages with
respect to other profiles.
I will not discuss the advantages and disadvantages with respect to profiles of other
vendors.
In normal circumstances you will not find any problems when printing with this profile.
Problems may (but must not) arise when separating extremely out of gamut RGB-colors, for
example an AdobeRGB blue with RGB = 0/0/255. Mapping of extremely out of gamut colors in
this area may cause a (slightly) purplish blue. In addition to the gamut mapping this
purplish blue depends on the ink trapping too.
I never saw printed samples which are not useable or sellable when a) printing to the ISO
standards colorant values and tvi curves and when b) preparing and separating carefully
images or graphics before printing.
The rumors about quality problems with ISOcoated_v2_eci and other ECI profiles are from
other profile vendors and from people looking only at separations and previews and not at
the final prints.
Heidelberg uses this profile together with other profiles build with PrintOpen in their
show rooms and education centers. If there are real problems with the separations then we
were the first to solve these problems. The purplish blue for extremely out of gamut
colors was corrected in the new version of PrintOpen available soon.
Kind regards,
Guenter Bestmann
Dr. Guenter Bestmann
Research & Development
Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG
Dr.-Hell-Strasse
D-24107 Kiel
E-Mail: guenter.bestmann(a)heidelberg.com
Tel: +49-431-3863887
Fax: +49-431-3863287
Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dr. Mark Wössner
Board: Bernhard Schreier, CEO - Dirk Kaliebe - Dr. Jürgen Rautert
Principal place of business: Heidelberg - Amtsgericht Mannheim - Registergericht HRB
330004 - VAT-ID-No. DE 143455661
-----Original Message-----
From: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com
[mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike Eddington
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 3:45 PM
To: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] RGB to CMYK
The concerns some have in regards to the ISO_Coatedv2_eci profile
revolve around issues of gamut mapping and smoothness, in particular out
of gamut blues tend to reproduce rather purplish when converted using
this profile with the relative/Absolute rendering intents (not so much
with perceptual). This issue isn't always manifested in images, but it
can be a concern in some cases. There are other sources of profiles
created from the Fogra39 dataset (www.colormanagement.org for one) that
minimize this issue, or you could create your own if you have the means
and if you deem this problematic for you.
_______________________________________
Michael Eddington | North American Color, Inc.
QA Manager | Gracol G7 Certified Expert
5960 S. Sprinkle Road | Portage, MI 49002
P. (269) 323-0552 | F. (269) 323-0190
meddington(a)nac-mi.com | www.nac-mi.com | www.nac1to1.com |
www.photo360.com
>> Hello
>>
>> I'm working as free lance in France, i've got a scitex scan and an
>> Epson 4800 with a best Designer for printer.
>> I work as long as possible in RGB and i convert at the end in CMYK,
>> i used euroscale coated and changed for isocoated ECI 2 years ago
>> and it seemed to be better.
>> But today i've heard that the isocoated and new isocoated V2 wasn't
>> a good profil for converted my RGB imaged (working space eci RGB
>> V2) in CMYK ? and that it's just a profil of "simulation" for the
>> printer !
>>
>> Is it true ? and should i use a profil like the new isocoated
>> frogra39 for the coated paper i use generaly.
>>
>> I've made a lot of test and print a lot of book without any problem
>> with a lot of printer, i was estonished.
>>
>> Can you help me ?
>>
>> sinceraly, bruno
_______________________________________________
ECI-EN mailing list
ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com
http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en
1:15 p.m.
New subject: RGB to CMYK
Do you mean Prinect Color Tools v3?
Please give my best to Sehran and Salvatore,
Heidelberg uses this profile together with other
profiles build with PrintOpen
in their show rooms and education centers. If there are real problems with the
separations then we were the first to solve these problems. The purplish blue
for extremely out of gamut colors was corrected in the new version of
PrintOpen available soon.
Kind regards,
Guenter Bestmann
Roger Breton
7:27 p.m.
New subject: RGB to CMYK
Hi,
Reg the one ICC-profile generator vs. another; answer to Dr. Guenter
Bestmann from Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG.
I find Dr. Guenter Bestmann's answers quite unscientific:
"The rumors about quality problems with ISOcoated_v2_eci and other ECI
profiles are from other profile vendors and from people looking only
at separations and previews and not at the final prints."
Does this mean - when using the ICC-profile made from the ECI
measurement - that a blue sky become purple on the monitor and on the
proof but not in the final print?
What the ICC-profile from the other manufacturer, (Binuscan in my
case), does is that blue stays blue - the whole way. I am using this
software to produce our "Press ICC-profiles" and also to recalculate
the ICC-profiles from ECI and find the software the most scientific*
product today: no options for more or less chroma etc and no profile
editor is included (read: a tool to correct the misstakes from the
manufacturer of the software).
These are my opinions and they are based on what we do here on one of
the largest sheet fed offset company in Sweden.
I would like to get the opinion from ECI regarding this.
If anyone is intersted to try and compare, we got some profiles on out
webpage www.alfaprint.se, or just send me an email.
Regards
Magnus Sandström, Alfaprint
5 feb 2008 kl. 09.04 skrev Bestmann, Guenter RD-PT23:
Dear all,
the profile ISOcoated_v2_eci was build with Heidelberg's PrintOpen
5.2. Before publishing the profile a lot of tests were made. ECI
made also some comparisons with profiles from other vendors. The
final decision was for the PrintOpen profile because from an overall
point of view this profile has some more advantages than
disadvantages with respect to other profiles.
I will not discuss the advantages and disadvantages with respect to
profiles of other vendors.
In normal circumstances you will not find any problems when printing
with this profile. Problems may (but must not) arise when separating
extremely out of gamut RGB-colors, for example an AdobeRGB blue with
RGB = 0/0/255. Mapping of extremely out of gamut colors in this area
may cause a (slightly) purplish blue. In addition to the gamut
mapping this purplish blue depends on the ink trapping too.
I never saw printed samples which are not useable or sellable when
a) printing to the ISO standards colorant values and tvi curves and
when b) preparing and separating carefully images or graphics before
printing.
The rumors about quality problems with ISOcoated_v2_eci and other
ECI profiles are from other profile vendors and from people looking
only at separations and previews and not at the final prints.
Heidelberg uses this profile together with other profiles build with
PrintOpen in their show rooms and education centers. If there are
real problems with the separations then we were the first to solve
these problems. The purplish blue for extremely out of gamut colors
was corrected in the new version of PrintOpen available soon.
Kind regards,
Guenter Bestmann
Dr. Guenter Bestmann
Research & Development
Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG
Dr.-Hell-Strasse
D-24107 Kiel
E-Mail: guenter.bestmann(a)heidelberg.com
Tel: +49-431-3863887
Fax: +49-431-3863287
Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dr. Mark Wössner
Board: Bernhard Schreier, CEO - Dirk Kaliebe - Dr. Jürgen Rautert
Principal place of business: Heidelberg - Amtsgericht Mannheim -
Registergericht HRB 330004 - VAT-ID-No. DE 143455661
-----Original Message-----
From: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com
[mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com
] On Behalf Of Mike Eddington
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 3:45 PM
To: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] RGB to CMYK
The concerns some have in regards to the ISO_Coatedv2_eci profile
revolve around issues of gamut mapping and smoothness, in particular
out
of gamut blues tend to reproduce rather purplish when converted using
this profile with the relative/Absolute rendering intents (not so much
with perceptual). This issue isn't always manifested in images, but it
can be a concern in some cases. There are other sources of profiles
created from the Fogra39 dataset (www.colormanagement.org for one)
that
minimize this issue, or you could create your own if you have the
means
and if you deem this problematic for you.
_______________________________________
Michael Eddington | North American Color, Inc.
QA Manager | Gracol G7 Certified Expert
5960 S. Sprinkle Road | Portage, MI 49002
P. (269) 323-0552 | F. (269) 323-0190
meddington(a)nac-mi.com | www.nac-mi.com | www.nac1to1.com |
www.photo360.com
>> Hello
>>
>> I'm working as free lance in France, i've got a scitex scan and an
>> Epson 4800 with a best Designer for printer.
>> I work as long as possible in RGB and i convert at the end in CMYK,
>> i used euroscale coated and changed for isocoated ECI 2 years ago
>> and it seemed to be better.
>> But today i've heard that the isocoated and new isocoated V2 wasn't
>> a good profil for converted my RGB imaged (working space eci RGB
>> V2) in CMYK ? and that it's just a profil of "simulation" for the
>> printer !
>>
>> Is it true ? and should i use a profil like the new isocoated
>> frogra39 for the coated paper i use generaly.
>>
>> I've made a lot of test and print a lot of book without any problem
>> with a lot of printer, i was estonished.
>>
>> Can you help me ?
>>
>> sinceraly, bruno
_______________________________________________
ECI-EN mailing list
ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com
http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en
_______________________________________________
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6 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Bestmann, Guenter RD-PT23 -
Lars Jacobsen -
Magnus Sandström -
Mike Eddington -
Roger Breton