Dear Tobias, this thought is not new. But do not forget: ICC profiles are intellectual property. That’s why generic profiles (well tested anyway) downloaded and used for free should remain a basic offer, as common as possible. All users are free to create their own special profiles. We have to respect that more specified printing conditions must be the field of specialized companies which deal with ink saving tools, colorimetric equipment, high-end profiles, consulting and digital proofing. Best regards, Dieter Von: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com [mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Tobias Kvant Gesendet: Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2017 08:08 An: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] Uncoated profile total ink Thank you for your answer Dieter. Maybe the profile should be less generic then, and could be split into two – so that sheetfed gets its own profile. Just a thought. Best regards Tobias Kvant 12 juli 2017 kl. 17:44 skrev Kleeberg, Dieter (bvdm) <dk@bvdm-online.de<mailto:dk@bvdm-online.de>>: Dear Tobias, "PSO Uncoated ISO12647 (ECI)” is an older M0-based profile with a TIC of 320% (AM screens, FOGRA47), supplemented by “PSO Uncoated NPscreenISO 12647 (ECI)” with 300% (NP screens, FOGRA44). The new M1-based “PSO Uncoated v3 (FOGRA52)” has a TIC of 300%. These 3 profiles were made not only for heatset web offset but also for sheetfed offset with its higher paper weights and qualities. That’s why generic profiles should come with more than 260%. Of course you may use ink saving tools which convert a 300% profile to 260% at the RIP. In other cases, 260% are good for some SP and Improved Newsprint papers supported by their own profiles. Best regards, Dieter Kleeberg Referent Technik + Forschung <image001.png> Bundesverband Druck und Medien e.V. (bvdm) German Printing and Media Industries Federation (bvdm) Friedrichstraße 194–199 D-10117 Berlin Telefon +49 (0) 30 / 20 91 39-164 Mobil +49 (0) 160 / 65 184 60 Telefax +49 (0) 30 / 20 91 39-113 Email: dk@bvdm-online.de<mailto:dk@bvdm-online.de> Internet: www.bvdm-online.de<http://www.bvdm-online.de/> Folgen Sie uns auf Twitter: http://twitter.com/Der_bvdm Publikationen: www.bvdm-online.de/shop/<http://www.bvdm-online.de/shop/> ProzessStandard Offsetdruck www.prozess-standard.com<http://www.prozess-standard.com/> PSO ProcessStandard Offset ISO 12647 www.pso-insider.de<http://www.pso-insider.de/> R16 roman16 bvdm Reference Images www.roman16.com<http://www.roman16.com/> ATS2+ Altona Test Suite 2.0 + Update 2016 www.altonatestsuite.com<http://www.altonatestsuite.com/> CO2 Klimainitiative bvdm – Climate initiative www.klima-druck.de<http://www.klima-druck.de/> MSD – Teilen Sie diesen originalen Link mit Ihren Kunden und Partnern: Medienstandard_Druck_2016.pdf<http://www.bvdm-online.de/fileadmin/tundf/bvdm_Medienstandard_Druck_2016.pdf> MSP – Share this permalink with your clients and partners: Mediastandard_Print_2016.pdf<http://www.bvdm-online.de/fileadmin/tundf/bvdm_Mediastandard_Print_2016.pdf> Von: eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> [mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Tobias Kvant Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 16:04 An: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com> Betreff: [ECI-EN] Uncoated profile total ink Dear ECI members, I was looking at your icc-profile for uncoated paper (PSO Uncoated ISO 12647) and noticed it seems to have a maximum total ink coverage of about 290%. Isn't that way too much for uncoated paper? Every printer I've spoken to agrees 260% should be the limit, or the print will be too dark and dry slowly. Most people using your profiles convert the limit to 260% in their RIP. Would be interesting to hear your view on this. Thank you. _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:ECI-EN@lists.callassoftware.com> http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en

Hi Denis, sorry for my late answer. I found your list mail today in my junk mail folder. ☹ No, “PSO Uncoated v3 (FOGRA52)” was made for heatset web offset, too. All new eight standard printing conditions are defined for HSWO, two of them (PC 1 and PC 5) as well as for sheetfed offset. Your assumption seems to arise from the fact that the ECI profile testing was carried out only on sheetfed presses. But we may ignore it. The ECI Web Offset Working Group (WOWG) will not run additional tests on HSWO presses. The WOWG is focusing all other printing conditions strictly made for HSWO. Generic profiles are only offers, but not final solutions. In this way, FOGRA51- and FOGRA52-based ICC profiles are also suitable as exchange profiles for digital sheetfed and web print jobs, comparable to FOGRA39- and FOGRA47-based profiles since many years. Best regards, Dieter Von: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com [mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Denis Salicetti Gesendet: Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2017 19:26 An: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] Uncoated profile total ink Hi Dieter, can you please clarify the statement "These 3 profiles were made not only for heatset web offset but also for sheetfed offset". For what I know, the new M1-based “PSO Uncoated v3 (FOGRA52)” has been made for sheetfed offset only. Am I right? Denis Salicetti<http://linkedin.salicetti.it> Publishing & Printing Expert | Representative at PDF Association<http://www.pdfa.org/> TAGA Italia | Via Benigno Crespi, 30 | 20159 MILANO (MI) Italy w: www.taga.it<http://www.taga.it> | e: Public-key cryptography<http://sites.google.com/salicetti.it/public-key-cryptograph… 2017-07-12 17:44 GMT+02:00 Kleeberg, Dieter (bvdm) <dk@bvdm-online.de<mailto:dk@bvdm-online.de>>: Dear Tobias, "PSO Uncoated ISO12647 (ECI)” is an older M0-based profile with a TIC of 320% (AM screens, FOGRA47), supplemented by “PSO Uncoated NPscreenISO 12647 (ECI)” with 300% (NP screens, FOGRA44). The new M1-based “PSO Uncoated v3 (FOGRA52)” has a TIC of 300%. These 3 profiles were made not only for heatset web offset but also for sheetfed offset with its higher paper weights and qualities. That’s why generic profiles should come with more than 260%. Of course you may use ink saving tools which convert a 300% profile to 260% at the RIP. In other cases, 260% are good for some SP and Improved Newsprint papers supported by their own profiles. Best regards, Dieter Kleeberg Referent Technik + Forschung [cid:image001.png@01D0CED7.BA383280] Bundesverband Druck und Medien e.V. (bvdm) German Printing and Media Industries Federation (bvdm) Friedrichstraße 194–199 D-10117 Berlin Telefon +49 (0) 30 / 20 91 39-164<tel:+49%2030%20209139164> Mobil +49 (0) 160 / 65 184 60<tel:+49%20160%206518460> Telefax +49 (0) 30 / 20 91 39-113<tel:+49%2030%20209139113> Email: dk@bvdm-online.de<mailto:dk@bvdm-online.de> Internet: www.bvdm-online.de<http://www.bvdm-online.de/> Folgen Sie uns auf Twitter: http://twitter.com/Der_bvdm Publikationen: www.bvdm-online.de/shop/<http://www.bvdm-online.de/shop/> ProzessStandard Offsetdruck www.prozess-standard.com<http://www.prozess-standard.com/> PSO ProcessStandard Offset ISO 12647 www.pso-insider.de<http://www.pso-insider.de/> R16 roman16 bvdm Reference Images www.roman16.com<http://www.roman16.com/> ATS2+ Altona Test Suite 2.0 + Update 2016 www.altonatestsuite.com<http://www.altonatestsuite.com/> CO2 Klimainitiative bvdm – Climate initiative www.klima-druck.de<http://www.klima-druck.de/> MSD – Teilen Sie diesen originalen Link mit Ihren Kunden und Partnern: Medienstandard_Druck_2016.pdf<http://www.bvdm-online.de/fileadmin/tundf/bvdm_Medienstandard_Druck_2016.pdf> MSP – Share this permalink with your clients and partners: Mediastandard_Print_2016.pdf<http://www.bvdm-online.de/fileadmin/tundf/bvdm_Mediastandard_Print_2016.pdf> Von: eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> [mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com>] Im Auftrag von Tobias Kvant Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 16:04 An: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com> Betreff: [ECI-EN] Uncoated profile total ink Dear ECI members, I was looking at your icc-profile for uncoated paper (PSO Uncoated ISO 12647) and noticed it seems to have a maximum total ink coverage of about 290%. Isn't that way too much for uncoated paper? Every printer I've spoken to agrees 260% should be the limit, or the print will be too dark and dry slowly. Most people using your profiles convert the limit to 260% in their RIP. Would be interesting to hear your view on this. Thank you. _______________________________________________ ECI-EN mailing list ECI-EN@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:ECI-EN@lists.callassoftware.com> http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en

Hi Sandis Thank you very much for your interest in further ECI profiles. At ECI we highly appreciate that our profiles are well accepted. Please allow me the following two fold answer to your question about further device link profiles: Technical perspective: The tricky situation with device link profiles is, that there would be a huge number of meaningful combinations which we could provide. By far too many to create, test and provide free of charge. The decision to provide device link profiles was not to fulfill all possible needs. But to ease the switch to the new printing conditions. With this in mind, we decided to provide device link profiles for the most important printing condition “Coated” only. Business perspective: Creating good profiles requires both: decent expertice and time plus the availability and license to use respective software tools. At ECI we are very happy, that the software firms whose software we use to create ECI profiles allow us to provide the profiles to the public free of charge. As mentioned above, creating good profiles requires both, time and tools and both aspects are the basis for income of experts and software providers. I.o.w.: You may wish to purchase one of the tools available to create the device link profiles you need. All the best Florian Süßl vice chairman of the European Color Initiative (ECI) -- Florian Süßl Goßlerstraße 29 12161 Berlin +49 172 3091154