Dear Roger,
as Karl wrote, I would like to recommend a way to the right inkjet proofing substrate.
First of all, please read table 29 in Media Standard Print:
https://www.bvdm-online.de/fileadmin/user_upload/bvdm_MediaStandard_Print_2…
After finding out the level of fluorescence in your printing paper you may choose an
appropriate proof medium with or without OBA. Not bvdm, but Fogra tested and certified 188
media:
https://www.fogra.org/en/fogra-fogracert-en/fc-materials/papers/proofing-su…
Some products in this data base may be redundant because of OEM labelling. Consider that
the OBAs used in a proof medium may be chemically and spectrally different from the OBAs
used in printing papers or from the OBAs used in competitors' products.
In order to proof a strong brightened wood-free uncoated stock you should use the “PSO
Uncoated v3 (FOGRA52)” profile and a proof medium with a high portion of OBA.
The difference between “PSO Coated v3” (Fogra51, M1-based) and “ISO Coated v2 (ECI)”
(Fogra39, M0-based) is not so large, so you are free to choose between a proof medium
without OBA or with a moderate OBA portion if available.
If there is a “popular” product does not seem to be relevant if it does not meet your
individual requirements. On the other hand, a proof service provider will not maintain a
portfolio of media with all OBA gradations but only two or three for each surface type.
Further adjustments must then be made in the proof software.
Best regards,
Dieter
Dieter Kleeberg
Referent Technik + Forschung
[cid:image001.png@01D0CED7.BA383280]
Bundesverband Druck und Medien e.V. (bvdm)
German Printing and Media Industries Federation (bvdm)
Friedrichstraße 194–199
D-10117 Berlin
Telefon +49 (0) 30 / 20 91 39-164
Mobil +49 (0) 160 / 65 184 60
Telefax +49 (0) 30 / 20 91 39-113
Email: dk@bvdm-online.de<mailto:dk@bvdm-online.de>
Internet:
www.bvdm-online.de<http://www.bvdm-online.de/>
Folgen Sie uns auf Twitter:
http://twitter.com/Der_bvdm
Jetzt vormerken: 7.– 8. Nov. Treffpunkt
Innovation<https://www.bvdm-online.de/themen/technik-forschung/treffpunkt-innovation/>
Publikationen:
www.bvdm-online.de/shop/<http://www.bvdm-online.de/shop/>
ProzessStandard Offsetdruck
www.prozess-standard.com<http://www.prozess-standard.com/>
PSO ProcessStandard Offset ISO 12647
www.pso-insider.de<http://www.pso-insider.de/>
R16 roman16 bvdm Reference Images
www.roman16.com<http://www.roman16.com/>
ATS2+ Altona Test Suite 2.0 + Update 2016
www.altonatestsuite.com<http://www.altonatestsuite.com/>
CO2 Klimainitiative bvdm – Climate initiative
www.klima-druck.de<http://www.klima-druck.de/>
MSD – Teilen Sie diesen originalen Link mit Ihren Kunden und Partnern:
www.bvdm-online.de/handreichungen<http://www.bvdm-online.de/handreichung…
MSP – Share this permalink with your clients and partners:
www.bvdm-online.de/handreichungen<http://www.bvdm-online.de/handreichung…
Von: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com
<eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com> Im Auftrag von Karl Michael Meinecke
Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Juni 2019 14:05
An: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
Dear Roger,
my colleague Dieter Kleeberg (bvdm) will answer your questions by tomorrow.
I am on vacation right now, today is may birthday and I am, at least officially, retired
;-)
Best Regards from Lisboa
Karl Michael Meinecke
Von:
eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com>
[mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] Im Auftrag von
graxx@videotron.ca<mailto:graxx@videotron.ca>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Juni 2019 12:41
An: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
Hallo Karl,
I really need to brush up on meine Deutche 😊
Danke shön so much for taking the zeit to explain.
I suspected Fogra51 was nicht der simple result of farbmessung druck sheets mit M1
instrument. You had to take into consideration Fogra39 and alles die other “historical”
developments, to carry the same “logic” into the future.
May I ask which proofing substrate sind “popular” to proof Fogra51 und 52, heute for
inkjet?
Has BVDM tested any? By any chance?
MfG / Roger
From:
eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com>
<eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com>>
On Behalf Of Karl Michael Meinecke
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 3:06 AM
To: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
Bonjour Roger,
Fogra 51 and Fogra 52 were not created by just taking measurements from a print. The
characterization data sets, especially of Fogra 51, is the result of a comprehensive
process of optimization, statistical evaluation, comparing results and final decision of a
group of ECI experts. The more than 15 print series at german, swiss and austrian printing
companies were initiated and accompanied by bvdm (myself) and overseen by ECI experts. The
measurements taken for Fogra 51 were all M1 (with additional M0 and M2 measurements to
evaluate the differences). All this was intense and hard work of ECI experts (Hanno
Hoffstadt (key person), Florian Suessl, Jurgen Seitz, Roland von Oeynhausen et al). When
the final characterization data set (Fogra 51) was fixed and passed, it was given to Fogra
to create the official data for publication in the series of Fogra characterisation data.
Most of the Fogra chardata were created in a similar way, e.g. Fogra 27 ff. with the
development of Altona Test Suite reference prints (2003-2004), Fogra 39 ff. with the
edition of ISO 12647-2 (2007) and with the development of web offset chardata and profiles
by ECI web offset international working group, supported by bvdm.
The corresponding ECI profiles were created and published by ECI. The „making of“ was
reported e.g. at the launch of the new printing conditions (ECI Profiles, Fogra 51, 52) on
September 30, 2015 in a special event at Stuttgart Media University (HdM).
The comprehensive documentation (with many related topics such as PDF/X, ISO Standards for
prepress and print) is available: MediaStandard Print (2018) free PDF download from bvdm
website:
https://www.bvdm-online.de/themen/technik-forschung/richtlinien-und-handrei… There
is a mix of german and english documents for download on this website (e.g. also the ECI
bvdm CrayCon series – Gray Control Strips). Just scroll down.
Best Regards
Karl Michael Meinecke
(bvdm technical expert 1980-2017)
***
Karl Michael Meinecke, Dipl.-Ing. (HdM)
E-Mail: karlmichael.meinecke@online.de<mailto:karlmichael.meinecke@online.de>
Mobil: +49 (0) 157 72 58 12 40
https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-michael-m-56282429/
Büro M
www.karlmeinecke.de<http://www.karlmeinecke.de>
DE-86482 Aystetten
DE-65343 Eltville am Rhein
Von:
eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com>
[mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] Im Auftrag von
graxx@videotron.ca<mailto:graxx@videotron.ca>
Gesendet: Samstag, 8. Juni 2019 22:38
An: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Betreff: [ECI-EN] Fogra 51 and Fogra 52
Is there any dokumentation on what instruments were used to generate Fogra 51 und Fogra52
characterization datei? Just “M1”? Or was it a “combination” of the same press sheets
measured with different instruments, all in M1 mode, like with an X-Rite eXact oder eine
Techkon Spectrodens oder eine Minolta FD-7?
Enshuldigen sie if I missed this and it is already mentioned on Fogra excellent web site
☹
MfG / Roger Breton
www.graxx.ca<http://www.graxx.ca>