Dear Mr.Sabastian,
I just presented this at a university where I have supervised a master student in the
subject. I can send the essay from this engineer for them who wants it, on a personal
level (email me).
Cheers
A Seb
Can I get the essay by email (elango_ae(a)yahoo.co.uk)
Thanks and regards
Elango
*/ Academic traditions in the graphic biz is a interesting subject itself. I will bring
this subject up here soon.
On Wednesday, April 16, 2008, at 12:01PM, wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Total Ink Coverage based on what? (Jo Brunenberg)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:40:50 +0200
From: "Jo Brunenberg"
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] Total Ink Coverage based on what?
To: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Sebastian,
In my view defining TIC- (or TAC) values cannot only be a matter of scientific
calculation.
In many cases in practice TAC values have been brought down in order to prevent problems
during printing and /or finishing.
(Like bad drying / smearing etc.)
Best regards,
Jo Brunenberg
Senior Technology Consultant
ROTO SMEETS (RSDB)
www.rotosmeets.com
www.rsdb.com
eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com,Internet writes:
I am new here. Hi all of you!
Here is my first contribution; a question regarding:
Total Ink Coverage, TIC, for offset printing and the ink limits:
In the past, when I worked in a analogue photographic enlarger, the TIC was not open for
discussions: we could not alter it.
When we bought a drum-scanner and where able to handle the values (and not colours, by the
way) electronically we where now able to decide what TIC we wanted.
The TIC's used where based on what people from Crosfield, Hell etc told us was
"good".
For coated offset printing values around 375% where often used. Same for uncoated and even
for newsprint sometimes (at least in my company) until we learned more, usually from other
people in the biz, and then we lowered the values for uncoated qualities.
Conclusion so far: TIC's where based on opinions and experience.
Photoshop and other softwares where introduced and followed the pattern as with the
drum-scanners.
ICC-technology appeared. Good ideas but not very high quality until maybe five years back
in history, generally speaking.
Initially the ICC-technology created more "colour gurus" rather then good
quality.
TIC's still based on opinions, "gray hair" and "experience".
Some people in the biz started to alter values for TIC, often based on test-strips with
CMYK, from 400% and down: visual checks etc.
Now:
For several years we have had the technology to actually calculate the best possible TIC
in a scientifical manner but still many colour gurus use the "good old default"
values. For example: 300 to 350 for coated, 260 to 319 (ECI) for uncoated and 220 to 240
for newsprint.
Why do we not calculate the TIC's scientifically? Today we have the tools, I have the
tools and we use them.
One example: for coated offset printed within ISO standards we base a neutral black on
around 340-350% and we reach L=10.
From that we allow the calculation to deviate
delta 1 in L, not in a or b. A engineer that I work with called this method JND, Just
Noticeable Difference.
This way we reach a TIC in neutral black that is 233% (two
hundred and thirty three)! In other words: we print neutral black with L=11 with 233%.
Note: This technology do not set the TIC limit to 233 for all colours, it is indvidual. A
dark red can for example end up 244%. Normal ICC-profiles are in other words a compromise:
the TIC will limit all colours to one top value for TIC.
One more example: for newsprint we have reached a TIC, for neutral black, around 180% with
a better L-value then ISOnewspaper26v4 - but a dark red can in the same print reach 209%.
And so on.
So, good bye to "opinions", "gray hair" and "experience" or
what is your opinion and experience regarding TIC?
Best regards
A Sebastian
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:41:14 +0200
From: Joerg Schober
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 5
To: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
Message-ID: <4805E5DA.6070104(a)redblue.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 16.04.2008 13:15 Uhr, Herr Spitfeure wrote:
I just presented this at a university where I have
supervised a master student in the subject. I can send the essay from this engineer for
them who wants it, on a personal level (email me).
I'm intereted in the paper. I hope I can find there 'hard facts',
until
now I have seen only many words and promises.
br,
J?rg Schober
Cheers
A Seb
--
J?rg Schober
______________________________
r e d b l u e Marketing GmbH
Qualit?tsmanagement
Helene-Wessel-Bogen 3
D-80939 Muenchen
fon +49 89 316 92-625
fax +49 89 316 92-779
http://www.redblue.de
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:37:26 +0100
From: "Jones, Ken"
Subject: [ECI-EN] Outputting FOGRA 27 files on a FOGRA 39 press
To:
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi
This is my first post, I found the lists hard to search, so forgive me if
this has been answered elsewhere..
We have a print policy based on ISO 12647:2004 FOGRA 27 standard.
However, one of our main print suppliers has moved to FOGRA 39 press
conditions and is understandably struggling to output matching our FOGRA 27
proofs.
What suggestions do you have of converting our FOGRA 27 PDF/X-1a files to
their FOGRA 39 press conditions. This is something that we would want them
to do.
Thanks
Ken Jones
Acting Technical Pre-Press Manager
Penguin Group (UK)
80 Strand, London, WC2R 0RL
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Thanks and Regards
A.Elangovan
Managing Director
Cadgraf Digitals Private Limited
Digiscape Design School
2 Wheatcrofts Road
Nungambakkam
Chennai-600034
India
Ph: 0091 44 28269021, 28256812, 28223814
mob: 0091 98410 23223
Fx: 0091 44 28232290
Email: elango_ae@yahoo.co.uk,sales@cadgraf.com
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