Hello Florian,
Yes, I would support exactly the same priority order that Pal has proposed.
Regards,
Rob
*Robert Banbury*
*Production Project Development Specialist*
*The Economist Newspaper*
+44 (0)20 7830 7000 x 1491
<http://www.economist.com/apps>
On 12 October 2015 at 09:46, <eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 14 (Peter Kleinheider)
2. Re: ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 16 (Paul Sherfield)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 06:36:02 +0000
From: Peter Kleinheider <peter(a)inpetto.cc>
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 14
To: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com"
<eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
Message-ID: <4EE9C020-6D5E-45A8-A75B-BD2B71E3EFC4(a)inpetto.cc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Florian,
Same priorities here except standard LWC, which had the least priority.
From Peter@on the Road
Calibrate Consulting
GmbH
Peter Kleinheider
+43.664.2600099
Skype: gironimus
Am 11.10.2015 um 23:43 schrieb
"florian(a)suessl.de" <florian(a)suessl.de>de>:
Dear all,
Pal thankfully provided his list of heat-set web offset printing
conditions with
LWC Improved being the most important one:.
> LWC
Improved
> MWC
> LWC
> SC
> News
Quick question to all list subscribers, especially those of you dealing
with
heat-set web offset printing:
Do you have the same priorities? Or would you like to share your
thoughts and
another sequence?
Thank you very much in advance!
All the best
Florian
> Am 11.10.2015 um 20:22 schrieb florian(a)suessl.de:
>
> Dear Pal,
>
> I do not want to argue as well. And I could not imagine anyone being
offended
by your post.
>
Coming back to your question
>>>>> The main problem is the next: when will ECI finish with all other
ICC profiles for instance SC, MWC, LWC, improved and so on?
>
Ideally we?d like to provide these profiles within some weeks or month.
But based
on our experience with all existing web offset profiles (SC, MWC,
etc.) we know, that making good profiles is time consuming.
> And we know, that we (WOWG) cannot work on
all needed profies
simultaneously. That is why we have to make a decision which one
will be
first, which one will follow. This question will be discussed in an
upcoming WOWG meeting.
>
Based on my contacts to print houses, I learnt, that each printer has
it?s own
priority list based on the particular client situation. And that
these lists differ from print house to print house or even from country to
country. There is nothing good or bad about it ? and therefore nothing
wrong if someone?s list differs from others priorities. And it would be not
helpful to argue. All we can do is, to figure out a general view of the
print market situation.
>
The reason for my question about your personal list is as simple as
that: I would
like to collect as much input as possible for the WOWG work.
So I am very happy that you provided your list!
>
Hope this explains the background.
>
> All the best and have a relaxing remaining Sunday evening
> Florian
>
>
>
>>
>> Dear Florian,
>>
>> I do not want to argue with you about what is the right order, and I
do
not want anyone to account why the profiles are not ready yet. I just
asked a simple question. I'm sorry if this offended anyone. I will be happy
if ECI announce a new profile and I say thank for the work of ECI, BVDM and
Fogra.
>>
>> Please make a decision and noone will argue with ECI or other
organizations about the profiles.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Pal Bekesy
>> Hungary
>>
>> 2015-10-10 14:49 GMT+02:00 <eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com>om>:
>> Send ECI-EN mailing list submissions to
>> eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> eci-en-owner(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of ECI-EN digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 12 (Florian S??l)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 14:49:27 +0200
>> From: Florian S??l <florian(a)suessl.de>
>> Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 12
>> To: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>> Message-ID: <445B6BD0-AFA9-4D9C-BD7B-FF35C1BF49C4(a)suessl.de>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear Pal,
>>
>> Thank you very much for your list.
>>
>> As you said, it's not easy or should I better say impossible, to
define a single sequence matching the need of all printers. There are
differences between print houses as they may have different types of
publications and clients with different paper preferences. And there are
even differences from region to region, country to country.
>>
>> All the best
>> Florian
>>
>> --
>> Florian S??l
>> Go?lerstra?e 29
>> 12161 Berlin
>>
>>> Am 10.10.2015 um 08:19 schrieb Pal Bekesy <bekesyp(a)gmail.com>om>:
>>>
>>> Dear Florian,
>>>
>>> It is very difficult, but I think the right order for the profiles:
>>> LWC Improved
>>> MWC
>>> LWC
>>> SC
>>> News
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Pal
>>>
>>> 2015-10-09 7:37 GMT+02:00 <eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com>om>:
>>>> Send ECI-EN mailing list submissions to
>>>> eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>
http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> eci-en-owner(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of ECI-EN digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 10 (Florian S??l)
>>>> 2. Re: ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 10 (Claas Bickeb?ller)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 00:46:28 +0200
>>>> From: Florian S??l <florian(a)suessl.de>
>>>> Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 10
>>>> To: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>> Message-ID: <43615CF2-8A01-4A21-B939-06B8033CFA58(a)suessl.de>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Dear Pal,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much for your interest in new profiles for the
remaining printing conditions.
>>>>
>>>> The web offset working group (WOWG) of the ECI will discuss shortly
how to deal with this challenge. As you probably know, the ECI 'web'
profiles are the result of extensive printing tests of the WOWG.
>>>>
>>>> As we will not be able to work on all remaining profiles at once:
Which profiles would you rate the most important ones, which one would you
like the WOWG to do first?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much in advance!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the best
>>>> Florian Suessl
>>>> chairman of the ECI WOWG
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Florian S??l
>>>> Go?lerstra?e 29
>>>> 12161 Berlin
>>>>
>>>>> Am 08.10.2015 um 20:50 schrieb Pal Bekesy <bekesyp(a)gmail.com>om>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems every guy forget but in the printing houses a CM workflow
e.g Alwan always contains the same profile and have to create every
workflow only once. And CM Team are familiar with the meaning of ICC
profiles. But the DTP guy often change the prrofiles if, he knows the type
of final output, but in most cases he does not know this, so he will use
only one profile in PhotoShop or InDesign for uncoated and coated stocks.
So the naming conventions issue is not a big deal for this mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>> The main problem is the next: when will ECI finish with all other
ICC profiles for instance SC, MWC, LWC, improved and so on. In my opinion
this is the most important question and not the name of the profile. To
tell the truth I like the name PSO Coated v3 this is short enough and the
only thing is important at the end the 'v3' mark.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Pal Bekesy
>>>> Hungary
>>>> Mondat Ltd.
>>>>
>>>> 2015-10-08 10:22 GMT+02:00 <eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com
:
>>>>>> Send ECI-EN mailing list submissions to
>>>>>> eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>>>
http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en
>>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to
>>>>>> eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>>> eci-en-owner(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific
>>>>>> than "Re: Contents of ECI-EN digest..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Re: Consistent Naming of Profiles (LYAUDET, Herve)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 08:22:55 +0000
>>>>>> From: "LYAUDET, Herve"
<h.lyaudet(a)altavia-paris.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] Consistent Naming of Profiles
>>>>>> To: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com"
>>>>>> <eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>> <
B7D722373EBE0B4596656D46DCB1B4AA6E66CB89(a)exchange3.broceliande.net>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="windows-1252"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It?s more easy for developer if the name of ICC profiles are
standardised (they say to me!).
>>>>>> Yes, many way to solve
this issue (ok is also their job. ).
>>>>>> The work of ECi is very important and you are doing a very good
job, I have no doubt about this. But our dev don?t understand why all the
process printing is standardised but not the name of ICC profiles.
>>>>>> The name issue being
mentioned, i take opportunity to talk about
this, for simplify the existence of
people :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Herv?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Herv? LYAUDET
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [cid:91B5510B-483E-4650-BC6F-548D2A5F3E0E]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [cid:7EF26BAC-05A3-4D49-BC75-54677C4A0BCA]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Color and workflow management.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tel. : +33 1 49 48 82 32
>>>>>> Port. : 06 27 78 47 53
>>>>>>
>>>>>> H.lyaudet(a)altavia-paris.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consider the environment, please don?t print this document unless
you really need to.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> De : <eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com<mailtomailto:
eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com>> on behalf of Kamil Tresnak <
kamil.tresnak@gmail.com<mailto:kamil.tresnak@gmail.com>>
>>>>>> R?pondre ? :
"eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com<mailtot;mailto:
eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>" <eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com<mailtomailto:
eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>>
>>>>>> Date : mercredi 7 octobre
2015 18:47
>>>>>> ? : "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com<mailtot;mailto:
eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>" <eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com<mailtomailto:
eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>>
>>>>>> Objet : Re: [ECI-EN]
Consistent Naming of Profiles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The information in this email and any attachments are the
property
ofALTAVIA or its affiliates and may contain proprietary and confidential
information that is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the
intended recipient, please refrain from any disclosure, copying,
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that such actions are prohibited and could be illegal. If you have received
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>>>>>> Les informations
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>> Url :
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> ECI-EN mailing list
>>>>>> ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>>>
http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en
>>>>>>
>>>>>> End of ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 10
>>>>>> **************************************
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ECI-EN mailing list
>>>>> ECI-EN(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>>
http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:33:13 +0200
>>>> From: Claas Bickeb?ller <lists(a)bickeboeller.name>
>>>> Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 10
>>>> To: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>> Message-ID:
<BA377322-09C1-494C-873E-2516742F0E87(a)bickeboeller.name>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> first of all thanks a lot to everyone who put his magic time
(remember, ECI is a non-profit organization) into the creation of the new
profiles and characterization data.
>>>>
>>>> Whether I like the new naming or not, I?m strictly against renaming
them now.
>>>> There is a risk that people will
run into CMYK-CMYK conversions by
accident. When people who use a profile with a
potential new name receive
files from early adopters having used PSO Coated v3 already you have the
mess.
>>>> We had this with ISO Coated v2
already where only a simple
descriptive tag was changed roughly 4 weeks after the
first version was
published.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>>
>>>> Claas
>>>>
>>>>> Am 08.10.2015 um 17:19 schrieb Paul Sherfield <
paul(a)missinghorsecons.co.uk>gt;:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> Please bow the the views in these posts and rename the coated
profile. It
>>>>> will only take a few
minutes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Sherfield
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Telephone : + 44 1442 207626
>>>>> Mobile: + 44 7899 906385
>>>>>
>>>>>
http://www.missinghorsecons.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>>
http://twitter.com/#!/missinghorse
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple Solutions Expert - Print & Publishing
>>>>> Member - UK TC130 Technical Advisory Group (ISO 12647 Printing
Standards)
>>>>> UK Expert: ISO TC130/Working
Group 13 on certification of printing
>>>>> standards
>>>>> Chair ? BPIF UK ISO 12647 Certification Steering Group
>>>>> Member - BPIF Technical Committee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lean and green?
>>>>> To save money and become a greener printer, see
>>>>>
http://www.greenprinter.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
http://www.keeconsultants.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Reduce your carbon footprint
>>>>>
http://www.1010uk.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This email and any attachments may be confidential and are intended
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>>>>> for the use of addressee. If
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08/10/2015 09:22, "eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com on
behalf of
>>>>>
eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com"
>>>>> <eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com on behalf of
>>>>> eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Send ECI-EN mailing list submissions to
>>>>>> eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>>>
http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en
>>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to
>>>>>> eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>>> eci-en-owner(a)lists.callassoftware.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific
>>>>>> than "Re: Contents of ECI-EN digest..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Re: Consistent Naming of Profiles (LYAUDET, Herve)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 08:22:55 +0000
>>>>>> From: "LYAUDET, Herve"
<h.lyaudet(a)altavia-paris.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] Consistent Naming of Profiles
>>>>>> To: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com"
>>>>>> <eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>> <
B7D722373EBE0B4596656D46DCB1B4AA6E66CB89(a)exchange3.broceliande.net>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="windows-1252"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It?s more easy for developer if the name of ICC profiles are
standardised
>>>>>>> (they say to me!).
>>>>>> Yes, many way to solve
this issue (ok is also their job. ).
>>>>>> The work of ECi is very important and you are doing a very good
job, I
>>>>>>> have no doubt about this. But our dev don?t understand why
all the
>>>>>>> process printing is standardised but not the name of ICC
profiles.
>>>>>> The name issue being
mentioned, i take opportunity to talk about
this,
>>>>>>> for simplify the existence of people :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Herv?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Herv? LYAUDET
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [cid:91B5510B-483E-4650-BC6F-548D2A5F3E0E]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [cid:7EF26BAC-05A3-4D49-BC75-54677C4A0BCA]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Color and workflow management.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tel. : +33 1 49 48 82 32
>>>>>> Port. : 06 27 78 47 53
>>>>>>
>>>>>> H.lyaudet(a)altavia-paris.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consider the environment, please don?t print this document unless
you
>>>>>> really need to.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> De :
>>>>>> <eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com<mailtomailto:
eci-en-bounces(a)lists.calla
>>>>>> ssoftware.com>> on
behalf of Kamil Tresnak
>>>>>>
<kamil.tresnak@gmail.com<mailto:kamil.tresnak@gmail.com>>
>>>>>> R?pondre ? :
>>>>>> "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com<mailtot;mailto:
eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>"
>>>>>>
<eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com<mailtomailto:
eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>>
>>>>>> Date : mercredi 7 octobre
2015 18:47
>>>>>> ? :
>>>>>> "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com<mailtot;mailto:
eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>"
>>>>>>
<eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com<mailtomailto:
eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>>
>>>>>> Objet : Re: [ECI-EN]
Consistent Naming of Profiles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The information in this email and any attachments are the
property
>>>>>>> ofALTAVIA or its affiliates and may contain
proprietary and
confidential
>>>>>> information that is
intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are
not
>>>>>> the intended recipient,
please refrain from any disclosure,
copying,
>>>>>> distribution, retention
or use of this information. You are hereby
>>>>>> notified that such actions are prohibited and could be illegal.
If
you
>>>>>> have received this e-mail
in error, please immediately contact the
sender
>>>>>> and delete the e-mail. We
appreciate your cooperation. Email
>>>>>> transmissions being not guaranteed, ALTAVIA and its affiliates
decline
>>>>>>> their liability due to this email transmission, specifically
when
>>>>>>> altered, modified or falsified.
>>>>>> Les informations
contenues dans cet e-mail ainsi que les fichiers
joints
>>>>>> sont la propri?t?
d?ALTAVIA et / ou ses filiales et peuvent ?tre
des
>>>>>> informations
confidentielles et priv?es qui sont adress?es ?
l?attention
>>>>>> de leur destinataire
uniquement. Si vous n??tes pas le
destinataire du
>>>>>> message merci de ne pas
divulguer, copier, diffuser, conserver ou
>>>>>> utiliser ces informations. Vous ?tes par la pr?sente notifi? que
ces
>>>>>> agissements sont
interdits et peuvent ?tre ill?gaux. Si vous avez
re?u
>>>>>> cet e-mail par erreur,
merci de prendre contact imm?diatement avec
>>>>>> l?exp?diteur et de d?truire cet e-mail. Nous vous remercions de
votre
>>>>>> coop?ration. La
correspondance en ligne n??tant pas un moyen
enti?rement
>>>>>> s?curis?, ALTAVIA et ses
filiales d?clinent toute responsabilit?
au titre
>>>>>> de cette transmission,
notamment si son contenu a ?t? alt?r?,
d?form? ou
>>>>>>> falsifi?.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>
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Florian S??l
Go?lerstra?e 29
12161 Berlin
+49 172 3091154
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Florian S??l
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:47:26 +0100
From: Paul Sherfield <paul(a)missinghorsecons.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 71, Issue 16
To: <eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
Message-ID: <D2412FF2.13E6D%paul(a)missinghorsecons.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Hi Florian
Re the web office profiles, based on my work within the UK publishing
area, this would be the order:
LWC improved
SC, paying special care re the white paper point in relation to the newer,
brighter SC papers on the market
LWC standard
MWC
I think there are new news profiles from IFRA already available.
Regards
Paul Sherfield
Telephone : + 44 1442 207626
Mobile: + 44 7899 906385
http://www.missinghorsecons.co.uk
http://twitter.com/#!/missinghorse
Apple Solutions Expert - Print & Publishing
Member - UK TC130 Technical Advisory Group (ISO 12647 Printing Standards)
UK Expert: ISO TC130/Working Group 13 on certification of printing
standards
Chair ? BPIF UK ISO 12647 Certification Steering Group
Member - BPIF Technical Committee
Lean and green?
To save money and become a greener printer, see
http://www.greenprinter.co.uk
http://www.keeconsultants.com
Reduce your carbon footprint
http://www.1010uk.org
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