5:51 p.m.
to anyone:
https://www.fogra.org/en/fogra-research/wc-digital-printing/technical-commi…
go to the bottom ...
Andy
________________________________________
Von: Alex Crickmore <Alex.Crickmore(a)gmgcolor.com>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Februar 2017 15:09
An: Andreas Kraushaar; eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
Betreff: Re: ECI-EN Digest, Vol 78, Issue 12
Hiya Andreas
Is the remote access available for me to use?
> On 7 Feb 2017, at 13:46, eci-en-request(a)lists.callassoftware.com wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: eci offset profiles surface finished. (Andreas Kraushaar)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 13:38:25 +0000
> From: Andreas Kraushaar <Kraushaar(a)fogra.org>
> Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] eci offset profiles surface finished.
> To: "eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com"
> <eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com>
> Message-ID: <1486474708233.52624(a)fogra.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Axel, all,
>
>
> let me all clarify the financing of Fogra since I often hear this kind of "they
benefit from a socialism kinda government funding" :-)
>
>
> First we are financed by members and therefore need to stay competitive to keep them
and gain more. At the end we have members from the entire food chain (supplier (not the
majority), print service providers, repro houses, consultants, print buyers). And that by
the way ensures our neutrality ("He who pays the piper, calls the tune.")!
>
>
> Then we apply for research grants on a project by project basis and only get funding
if it is scientifically and economical sophisticated (focussing on the contribution of
>30 small and medium companies that we need to convince to support that project).
>
>
> Tomorrow for instance the industry interesting in digital printing is meeting in
Munich (Agenda, Login for remote access etc:
https://www.fogra.org/en/fogra-research/wc-digital-printing/technical-commi…)
>
>
> Here we expect more than 30 attendees (+ remote attendees) from worldwide to discuss
the ongoing projects and in particular the new projects. So we provide a platform where
the industry can come and say: "Please ask for tax money to solve my problem
XXX" to put it very straight.
>
>
> As anyone knows research is never beneficial, we have to do some normal commercial
activities to achieve the black zero (such as seminars, control strips, certifications,
symposiums etc).
>
>
> So join tomorrow and learn how you can contribute!
>
>
> regards
>
> Andy? Kraushaar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Von: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com
<eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com> im Auftrag von Karl Michael Meinecke
<KarlMichael.Meinecke(a)online.de>
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Februar 2017 13:41
> An: eci-en(a)lists.callassoftware.com
> Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] eci offset profiles surface finished.
>
> Dear Axel, all,
>
> Olaf?s point is most important. Only sustainable co-operation, support and
contribution of industry experts provides new standards, applications, profiles. Including
the participation of users, printing and prepress companies ? supported by their
associations. This worked for many years: Great efforts of a small number of individuals
and companies for the benefit of the industry on international level.
>
> I also want to clarify the misunderstanding with respect to the funding of bvdm.
There is no public funding of bvdm and it?s regional associacions vdm. The associacions
are funded only via membership fees. Second, revenues from activities such as additional
consulting sevices and training activities offered to the industry (users, member
companies). Members of the associations (vdm) are german printing companies, prepress and
postpress companies ? the users in the industry. Bvdm/vdm is the german employers
association of the printing and media industries (like UNIIC in France
www.com-unic.fr<http://www.com-unic.fr>)r>). The membership is voluntarily. Many
companies are not member of the associacion (vdm) ? but are taking advantage of the
benefits anyway. This includes e.g. development of professional training, job profiles,
curriculae; development and support of standards, technical solutions; economic support
and representation (industry policy, regulations, taxes on national a
> nd european level).
>
> The manufacturers of machinery, materials and systems are not funding bvdm/vdm
either. They are running their own associacions such as vdma (machinery), vdp (paper), VdL
(printing ink). In many cases the manufacturers ? as suppliers of the printing industry
(users) ? have different positions e.g. with respect to quality and performance of
delivered goods and services. This is in some cases subject of negotiations between bvdm
and supplier associacions (agreements or recommendations) ? e.g. the terms for the
commissioning of printing presses, prepress and postpress equipment (guidelines, technical
criteria, testing procedures).
>
> However, bvdm/vdm and manufacturers associations are co-operating on many topics,
e.g. the support and further development of print media, on national and international
level. Examples are www.fr.twosides.info/<http://www.fr.twosides.info/>
www.printpower.eu/<http://www.printpower.eu/> Probably the most important area of
co-operation between bvdm/vdm, manufacturers and other organisations (ECI, Fogra) is the
development of technical standards and applications, see above. This is established for
many years and the prerequisite for a successful development of technical quality industry
standards and application tools (bvdm/ECI/Fogra ?).
>
> Best Regards
> Karl Michael
> (senior consultant at bvdm 1980-2016)
>
> ***
> Karl Michael Meinecke
> E-Mail: karlmichael.meinecke@online.de<mailto:karlmichael.meinecke@online.de>
>
> Von: eci-en-bounces(a)lists.callassoftware.com
[mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Olaf Dr?mmer
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Februar 2017 12:05
> An: Mailing List [ECI-EN]
> Cc: Olaf Dr?mmer
> Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] eci offset profiles surface finished.
>
> Hi Axel
>
> I don't think anybody was offended! I just wanted to point out that everybody -
including a 'little prepress manager' - has the freedom to decide where to invest
his/her resources.This does not mean that it **has to be you** who should invest in the
development of the requested new profiles. But it could be you... (or just about anybody
else in the industry).
>
> Olaf
>
>
>
> On 07 Feb 2017, at 11:52, Axel Robert
<axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello Olaf,
>
> Apologize I have offended anyone here.
> It was of course not the goal at all.
>
> Nevertheless, I also paid in the past for the French ISO (aka CNTCG) in order to move
things forward.
> I was the only big customer and almost no printer was involved too.
> So, I know how it could be difficult in term of personal investment.
>
> The fact is, I?m afraid not to be clever and brilliant enough, to technically
participate to the elaboration of this.
> I don?t have your skills. At the risk of repeating myself, I?m just a little prepress
manager. ?
>
>
> Regards.
> Axel
>
>
> From:
<eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com>>
on behalf of Olaf Dr?mmer
<olaflist@callassoftware.com<mailto:olaflist@callassoftware.com>>
> Reply-To:
"eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>"
<eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>>
> Date: mardi 7 f?vrier 2017 11:03
> To: "Mailing List [ECI-EN]"
<eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com<mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>>
> Cc: Olaf Dr?mmer
<olaflist@callassoftware.com<mailto:olaflist@callassoftware.com>>
> Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] eci offset profiles surface finished.
>
> Hi Axel, hi everyone else on this list,
>
> On 07 Feb 2017, at 10:22, Axel Robert
<axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> wrote:
>
> But firstly, we are followers, not owners of the new standards.
>
>
> while nobody can be an owner of all the standards that matter to him/her, it is
ultimately everybody's own choice whether to become an owner of a certain standard or
a driver for the work for and around a standard. Standards are made by ordinary people
(who are hardly ever being paid for making standards - rather the opposite: in Germany we
have to pay annual fees - on a per person/per committee basis - to be allowed to
participate in national and international standardization work) .
>
> While it is true there has been (less and less) government and similar funding for
some organizations, and while some leading manufacturers have contributed significantly in
the past (and continue to do so), each and every bit of what the group of ECI, Fogra,
bdvm, Ifra and Ugra have developed in the last 20 or so years is a mix of contributions
also from many 'smaller players' (smaller printing houses, media service
providers, ...), all the way down to freelance professionals. In many cases people have
mostly invested their personal / private time - quite a few contributors who are employees
do their work 'on the side'/as a hobby, and the same is true for freelancers.
>
> The ultimate question is: do you care enough (or do you feel enough pain) to get
involved and help take next steps, or not? If there is not enough pain, let's wait
until it gets bigger... (or goes away?) ;-)
>
>
> Maybe one day someone looking for improvements/further developments around the
standards he/she uses will ask: What is needed to get there? How can I help?
>
>
> Olaf
>
>
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