Am Donnerstag, 07.08.03 um 15:22 Uhr schrieb Jo Brunenberg:
olaflist(a)callassoftware.com,Internet writes:
>
> So let's get started. What would be the best approach to get this
> going?
> How can we make printers hungry for device independent data?
Olaf,
I completely agree with your statements. We run a device independent
workflow in reproduction since a couple of years now and noticed large
increasement of quality and efficiency. Jo's reply is highly
significant, because pushing things to the limit is situated in the
nature of device independent workflows. Once they are established they
provide us with high levels of consistency and predictability.
In order to support this statement I will reply to answers of your
first post.
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Am Montag, 04.08.03 um 13:15 Uhr schrieb Darrian Young:
I am well of aware of the workflow you are supporting
here,
and I also work generally in the same direction, but it is not as
simple
of a solution as it seems, and done too soon, can also be
counter-productive.
IMO, the specification of PDFX3 combines perfectly traditional working
principles with advanced and device independent workflows. To postpone
CMYK as long as possible does not mean to prevent it in any case. The
way we talk about media neutral data means at the moment: preferably a
3-channel colorspace which is big enough to cover ideally all
outputspaces. If we would have a CMYK-colorspace which is big enough to
cover most other spaces, it would become kind of device-independent in
this meaning.
One unitary device independent colorspace increases compatibility and
gives less transformation needs (plus other major advantages of
RGB-spaces, like perfect gray balance).
From this viewpoint, in a sense it does not really matter which kind of
colorspaces are in PDFX3 - we only have to take care of the right
choice in correct rendering to the output intent.
This sounds too easy to be possible, but in fact today's workflow-tools
are sophisticated enough to allow this on a high professional level.
PDFX3 gives us all options - completely CMYK or completely RGB or
completely mixed, preferably device independent. No reason to be scared.
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Am Montag, 04.08.03 um 12:14 Uhr schrieb kk_cs:
But even working in RGB requires a basic knowledge of
color
management, color models and the concept of a working space - along
with a calibrated and profiled system. Otherwise " if files seem to
come from not so professionals, convert them in a way to make them 'as
nice/pleasant as possible'" will result in a try and error method that
is neither productive nor will it result in a consistant color >
quality.
In a well calibrated and profiled working environment handling of all
kinds of files becomes easier than it first looks like. There are two
eventualities: 1 - profiles are attached knowingly or 2 - not.
In the first case, everything is fine - we are able to convert the data
to where we want to, including leaving it as is.
In the second case, all we have to do is to assign a profile which
looks good on monitor or proof (in a well profiled and calibrated
working environment we naturally do not need to hardproof the file
first, because the monitor shows us what we will get).
The process of decision works simple: if there is no profile attached
or obviously a wrong one, we do not assume that the creator of this
file really expects that the outcome will be exactly like anything he
saw on his equipment. So he will be satisfied with a pleasing look. We
never had real problems from that with proofed or printed data, because
in the mind of them only the proof shows what they will get - and that
is what we give them.
(BTW, a obviously wrong attached profile happens seldom. If we receive
data with SWOP or ToyoInks from germans, the data normally has been
created with this settings in for example Photoshop - therefore, the
right profile has been attached to the data. With this knowlegde, we
can make the right decisions to handle these files.)
I think to teach principles like this to printers and reproduction
companys might be workable.
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Am Donnerstag, 07.08.03 um 15:22 Uhr schrieb Jo Brunenberg:
In the prepress we have noticed a quality and
efficiency improvement
using profile-to profile conversions instead of letting scanner
operators fiddle around with settings when producing CMYK scans.
This is very true. :-)
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Am Donnerstag, 07.08.03 um 14:20 Uhr schrieb George Battrick:
Find customers who are willing to pay them for the
extra work they have
to do processing it?
Or persuade the printers that it is actually less work than dealing
with
CMYK?
If we do our work well with showing them they can in fact save costs,
increase and secure quality and efficiency to an undeniable improvement
regarding knowledge and image as well - they will. There are a lot of
advantages appearing after implementation which we can point out.
Regards, Andre Schützenhofer