Hi Leonard,

as you rightfully point out - Altona Test Suite 2 speaks of “expected output”, and that’s what it is: the output that a group of experts - the ECI - expects from rendering a PDF/X-4 conforming file in order to achieve consistent output between different output systems.

Whether that is sufficient ground to declare it “invalid und unusable by the industry”? Not based on the feedback we received from essentially everybody (except Adobe) in almost four years since Altona Test Suite v2 was published.  So far  I have not heard anything that would make me consider or recommend a change to the Altona Test Suite, whether to the test files as such or to the accompanying documentation. 


As mentioned before: if you submit a specific bug report or a specific change request I will make sure it gets reviewed and considered. 


Thanks,

Olaf Drümmer
Chairman of the European Color Initiative (ECI)



On 01.04.2016, at 15:03, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> wrote:

As the 2013 files have “expected output” samples that are NOT THE ONLY valid output, and that the documentation that accompanies the suite as well as the marketing message from the ECI and others, does not reflect this reality (which led to the substantial changes in Clause 11) - I continue to consider the 2013 suite invalid and unusable by the industry.   And that message is the one maintained by Adobe verbally and in our software implementation and which we also instruct our OEM vendors (though they are free to customize their implementations as they see fit).

At a minimum, (and as we have discussed for 3 years now), ECI should change their documentation and message to reflect that other outputs from the current suite are acceptable as per PDF/X-4 and PDF 1.6.  When that happens, I will be glad to publicly change my position.

Leonard Rosenthol
PDF Architect · Principal Scientist  |  Adobe Systems Incorporated  |  p. 408.536.2433  |  c. 215.808.4978  |  leonardr@adobe.com


From: <pdfx-next-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> on behalf of Olaf Drümmer <olaf@druemmer.com>
Reply-To: "pdfx-next@lists.callassoftware.com" <pdfx-next@lists.callassoftware.com>
Date: Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:55 AM
To: "pdfx-next@lists.callassoftware.com" <pdfx-next@lists.callassoftware.com>
Cc: "Knape, Bettina (bvdm)" <bk@bvdm-online.de>, Mailing List WOWG <wowg@lists.callassoftware.com>, "info@ugra.ch" <info@ugra.ch>, "eci@lists.callassoftware.com" <eci@lists.callassoftware.com>, Eci-Members <eci-members@lists.callassoftware.com>, "Mailing List [ECI-EN]" <eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Subject: Re: [PDFX-next] Altona Test Suite 2.0 Update (2016)

Hi Leonard,

as a very clear statement in my role as Chairman of the ECI (and one of the developers of the Altona Test Suite v2):

- there is **NOTHING** wrong with the PDF files in Altona Test Suite v2 (neither in the originally published version nor in this 2016 update)
- PDF 2.0 is neither (ISO internally) finalized  nor  published yet; thus there was no reason to even consider making it a PDF 2.0 conforming set of PDF files; Altona Test Suite v2 is still based on PDF/X-4 (and by implication on PDF 1.6)
- in terms of expected rendering results of page content on the Technical page of Altona Test Suite  v2  involving transparency on the background of the recently (less than two months ago) updated clause “11. Transparency “ in the 3rd DIS of ISO 32000-2, the ECI members who have developed Altona Test Suite v2 have reason to assume that no adjustments in the test pages are or will become necessary

In case you disagree with any of this, please submit detailed bug reports and preferably specific test files that prove your point.


Thanks,

Olaf Drümmer
Chairman of the European Color Initiative (ECI)



On 01.04.2016, at 04:12, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> wrote:

But has anyone modified the tests to comply with ISO 32000-2 yet?  If so, whats the point since these files still remain invalid?!?!

Leonard


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