Re : [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 7

Apperantly you have success. I’m interested to received this report too.

Tha,ks a lot beforehand.

Regards.

Axel ROBERT | Print Quality Manager |
Tel: +33 (0)1 48 18 52 03 | Cell: +33 (0)6 68 83 34 67

P Pensez au respect de l'environnement avant d’imprimer cet email.
Think about the environment before printing this email.

Le 18/04/08 14:01, « marc.mahy@agfa.com » <marc.mahy@agfa.com> a écrit :

Dear Mr. Sabastian,

If possible I would like to get the report too.

Regards.

Marc Mahy

email: marc.mahy@agfa.com

"Anandaramakrishnan Srinivasan" <anand07.s@gmail.com>

"Anandaramakrishnan Srinivasan" <anand07.s@gmail.com>
Sent by: eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com 04/17/2008 02:49 PM Please respond to
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Re: [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 7

Dear Mr sabastian
Can you please send me the essay?

Thanks and Regards
Anand
anand07.s@gmail.com <mailto:anand07.s@gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:55 PM, <eci-en-request@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en-request@lists.callassoftware.com> > wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 6 (elango ae)
2. Re: ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 6 (Louis Dery)
3. Re : ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 6 (Axel Robert)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:43:54 +0100 (BST)
From: elango ae <elango_ae@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:elango_ae@yahoo.co.uk> >
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 6
To: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Message-ID: <508214.18894.qm@web24310.mail.ird.yahoo.com <mailto:508214.18894.qm@web24310.mail.ird.yahoo.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear Mr.Sabastian,

I just presented this at a university where I have supervised a master student in the subject. I can send the essay from this engineer for them who wants it, on a personal level (email me).
Cheers
A Seb

Can I get the essay by email (elango_ae@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:elango_ae@yahoo.co.uk> )
Thanks and regards
Elango

*/ Academic traditions in the graphic biz is a interesting subject itself. I will bring this subject up here soon.

On Wednesday, April 16, 2008, at 12:01PM, wrote:
>Send ECI-EN mailing list submissions to
> eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en <http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en>
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> eci-en-request@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en-request@lists.callassoftware.com>
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
> eci-en-owner@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en-owner@lists.callassoftware.com>
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of ECI-EN digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Total Ink Coverage based on what? (Jo Brunenberg)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:40:50 +0200
>From: "Jo Brunenberg"
>Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] Total Ink Coverage based on what?
>To: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
>Message-ID:
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Hi Sebastian,
>
>In my view defining TIC- (or TAC) values cannot only be a matter of scientific calculation.
>In many cases in practice TAC values have been brought down in order to prevent problems during printing and /or finishing.
>(Like bad drying / smearing etc.)
>
>Best regards,
>Jo Brunenberg
>Senior Technology Consultant
>ROTO SMEETS (RSDB)
>www.rotosmeets.com <http://www.rotosmeets.com/>
>www.rsdb.com <http://www.rsdb.com/>
>
>eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com> ,Internet writes:
>>I am new here. Hi all of you!
>>
>>Here is my first contribution; a question regarding:
>>
>>
>>Total Ink Coverage, TIC, for offset printing and the ink limits:
>>
>>
>>In the past, when I worked in a analogue photographic enlarger, the TIC was not open for discussions: we could not alter it.
>>
>>When we bought a drum-scanner and where able to handle the values (and not colours, by the way) electronically we where now able to decide what TIC we wanted.
>>The TIC's used where based on what people from Crosfield, Hell etc told us was "good".
>>For coated offset printing values around 375% where often used. Same for uncoated and even for newsprint sometimes (at least in my company) until we learned more, usually from other people in the biz, and then we lowered the values for uncoated qualities.
>>
>>Conclusion so far: TIC's where based on opinions and experience.
>>
>>Photoshop and other softwares where introduced and followed the pattern as with the drum-scanners.
>>
>>ICC-technology appeared. Good ideas but not very high quality until maybe five years back in history, generally speaking.
>>Initially the ICC-technology created more "colour gurus" rather then good quality.
>>TIC's still based on opinions, "gray hair" and "experience".
>>
>>Some people in the biz started to alter values for TIC, often based on test-strips with CMYK, from 400% and down: visual checks etc.
>>
>>Now:
>>For several years we have had the technology to actually calculate the best possible TIC in a scientifical manner but still many colour gurus use the "good old default" values. For example: 300 to 350 for coated, 260 to 319 (ECI) for uncoated and 220 to 240 for newsprint.
>>
>>Why do we not calculate the TIC's scientifically? Today we have the tools, I have the tools and we use them.
>>
>>One example: for coated offset printed within ISO standards we base a neutral black on around 340-350% and we reach L=10.
>>>From that we allow the calculation to deviate delta 1 in L, not in a or b. A engineer that I work with called this method JND, Just Noticeable Difference.
>>This way we reach a TIC in neutral black that is 233% (two hundred and thirty three)! In other words: we print neutral black with L=11 with 233%.
>>Note: This technology do not set the TIC limit to 233 for all colours, it is indvidual. A dark red can for example end up 244%. Normal ICC-profiles are in other words a compromise: the TIC will limit all colours to one top value for TIC.
>>One more example: for newsprint we have reached a TIC, for neutral black, around 180% with a better L-value then ISOnewspaper26v4 - but a dark red can in the same print reach 209%.
>>And so on.
>>
>>So, good bye to "opinions", "gray hair" and "experience" or what is your opinion and experience regarding TIC?
>>
>>Best regards
>>A Sebastian
>>_______________________________________________
>>ECI-EN mailing list
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>
>
>
>Office: Molenveldstraat 90 - 6001 HL - Weert - The Netherlands
>P.O. Box 17 6000 AA - Weert - The Netherlands
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>End of ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 5
>*************************************
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:41:14 +0200
From: Joerg Schober
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 5
To: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Message-ID: <4805E5DA.6070104@redblue.de <mailto:4805E5DA.6070104@redblue.de> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 16.04.2008 13:15 Uhr, Herr Spitfeure wrote:
> I just presented this at a university where I have supervised a master student in the subject. I can send the essay from this engineer for them who wants it, on a personal level (email me).
>
>
I'm intereted in the paper. I hope I can find there 'hard facts', until
now I have seen only many words and promises.

br,
J?rg Schober
> Cheers
> A Seb
>
>

--

J?rg Schober
______________________________
r e d b l u e Marketing GmbH
Qualit?tsmanagement
Helene-Wessel-Bogen 3
D-80939 Muenchen
fon +49 89 316 92-625
fax +49 89 316 92-779
http://www.redblue.de <http://www.redblue.de/>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:37:26 +0100
From: "Jones, Ken"
Subject: [ECI-EN] Outputting FOGRA 27 files on a FOGRA 39 press
To:
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi
This is my first post, I found the lists hard to search, so forgive me if
this has been answered elsewhere..

We have a print policy based on ISO 12647:2004 FOGRA 27 standard.
However, one of our main print suppliers has moved to FOGRA 39 press
conditions and is understandably struggling to output matching our FOGRA 27
proofs.
What suggestions do you have of converting our FOGRA 27 PDF/X-1a files to
their FOGRA 39 press conditions. This is something that we would want them
to do.

Thanks
Ken Jones
Acting Technical Pre-Press Manager

Penguin Group (UK)
80 Strand, London, WC2R 0RL

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End of ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 6
*************************************

Thanks and Regards
A.Elangovan
Managing Director
Cadgraf Digitals Private Limited
Digiscape Design School
2 Wheatcrofts Road
Nungambakkam
Chennai-600034
India
Ph: 0091 44 28269021, 28256812, 28223814
mob: 0091 98410 23223
Fx: 0091 44 28232290
Email: elango_ae@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:elango_ae@yahoo.co.uk> ,sales@cadgraf.com <mailto:sales@cadgraf.com>

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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:13:13 -0400
From: Louis Dery <ldery@tglc.com <mailto:ldery@tglc.com> >
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 6
To: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1EB46CBA-2E9C-4D97-9747-01FBCBA57590@tglc.com <mailto:1EB46CBA-2E9C-4D97-9747-01FBCBA57590@tglc.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
format=flowed

Hi A Seb,

About devicelink profile for ink saving and ink coverage reduction,
if you want to send file to test the new PerfX Device Link Pro?
software, just let me know.

I am also interested about the essay.

regards,

Louis Dery
TGLC inc.
www.tglc.com <http://www.tglc.com/>

On Apr 17, 2008, at 6:00 AM, eci-en-request@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en-request@lists.callassoftware.com>
wrote:
>
> IN GENERAL REG THIS STUFF
> The base of what I am talking about is of course a serious ICC-
> profiling software. In my case the profilegenerator is built-in to
> the software.
> I have tried a few different programs that claim to "save ink" and/
> or convert for example colour standards to press.
> Some work some don't. One saved 3% CMY (very useful, LOL). Most of
> them "save ink" but some create new colours: of course you can save
> ink if you make a blue sky gray... :-)) How much to you save if you
> print BW? LOL!
> I tried one (I keep to the subject and I avoid to mention names of
> software as you have noticed), that do a good job from for example
> F39 to F39 but if you alter the setting to F39 to press: crap. For
> me that is not very serious. The user can then not adapt the job to
> the press but only "save ink". I guess the problem is that the
> manufacturer know how to convert but have no knowledge about colour
> and printing. They probably made the factory settings with a
> serious profiling software from another manufacturer but give no
> tools to the user to make their own.
> Conclusion reg this: if a software manufacturer can't even make a
> decent ICC-profile, conventional or device link, how can they then
> make a device link based software that is supposed to convert
> colour and "save ink"? ;-)
> In other words: when the poorest manufactures of ICC-profiling
> softwares make "save ink", "optimal ink" etc solutions: think twice
> before you purchase.
>
> Personally I do not talk about "save ink" but about optimal values
> for all colours, and no acceptance of colour deviations accept for
> 1 level in L, + being able to match the colour to the press.
>
> I just presented this at a university where I have supervised a
> master student in the subject. I can send the essay from this
> engineer for them who wants it, on a personal level (email me).
>
> Cheers
> A Seb
>
> */ Academic traditions in the graphic biz is a interesting subject
> itself. I will bring this subject up here soon.
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:24:59 +0200
From: Axel Robert <axel.robert@ubisoft.com <mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com> >
Subject: [ECI-EN] Re : ECI-EN Digest, Vol 26, Issue 6
To: <eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com> >
Message-ID: <C42D0E3B.3444%axel.robert@ubisoft.com <mailto:C42D0E3B.3444%25axel.robert@ubisoft.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello everyone,

Can you tell us which software you use or you try?

I'm running actually with a workflow who integrates device link profile.
And it work very well.

Kinds regards.

Axel ROBERT | Print Quality Manager |
Tel: +33 (0)1 48 18 52 03 | Cell: +33 (0)6 68 83 34 67

P Pensez au respect de l'environnement avant d?imprimer cet email.
Think about the environment before printing this email.

Le 17/04/08 14:13, ??Louis Dery?? <ldery@tglc.com <mailto:ldery@tglc.com> > a ?crit?:

> Hi A Seb,
>
> About devicelink profile for ink saving and ink coverage reduction,
> if you want to send file to test the new PerfX Device Link Pro?
> software, just let me know.
>
> I am also interested about the essay.
>
> regards,
>
> Louis Dery
> TGLC inc.
> www.tglc.com <http://www.tglc.com/>
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2008, at 6:00 AM, eci-en-request@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:eci-en-request@lists.callassoftware.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> IN GENERAL REG THIS STUFF
>> The base of what I am talking about is of course a serious ICC-
>> profiling software. In my case the profilegenerator is built-in to
>> the software.
>> I have tried a few different programs that claim to "save ink" and/
>> or convert for example colour standards to press.
>> Some work some don't. One saved 3% CMY (very useful, LOL). Most of
>> them "save ink" but some create new colours: of course you can save
>> ink if you make a blue sky gray... :-)) How much to you save if you
>> print BW? LOL!
>> I tried one (I keep to the subject and I avoid to mention names of
>> software as you have noticed), that do a good job from for example
>> F39 to F39 but if you alter the setting to F39 to press: crap. For
>> me that is not very serious. The user can then not adapt the job to
>> the press but only "save ink". I guess the problem is that the
>> manufacturer know how to convert but have no knowledge about colour
>> and printing. They probably made the factory settings with a
>> serious profiling software from another manufacturer but give no
>> tools to the user to make their own.
>> Conclusion reg this: if a software manufacturer can't even make a
>> decent ICC-profile, conventional or device link, how can they then
>> make a device link based software that is supposed to convert
>> colour and "save ink"? ;-)
>> In other words: when the poorest manufactures of ICC-profiling
>> softwares make "save ink", "optimal ink" etc solutions: think twice
>> before you purchase.
>>
>> Personally I do not talk about "save ink" but about optimal values
>> for all colours, and no acceptance of colour deviations accept for
>> 1 level in L, + being able to match the colour to the press.
>>
>> I just presented this at a university where I have supervised a
>> master student in the subject. I can send the essay from this
>> engineer for them who wants it, on a personal level (email me).
>>
>> Cheers
>> A Seb
>>
>> */ Academic traditions in the graphic biz is a interesting subject
>> itself. I will bring this subject up here soon.
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ECI-EN mailing list
> ECI-EN@lists.callassoftware.com <mailto:ECI-EN@lists.callassoftware.com>
> http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en <http://lists.callassoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/eci-en>

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