Guten Morgen Andreas, Good morning everyone,
I have no doubt about your explanations.
But I agree in a part with the analysis.
We, daily professionals of the Graphic Industry, are pleased to use all the stuff produced.
And I, of course, know they represent a significant piece of work.
I deeply thank you for that.
But firstly, we are followers, not owners of the new standards.
It’s often as difficult to use than to produce them.
Believe me, I know what I am talking about!
J
Secondly, there are huge difference between countries in term of strengthen scientific research capacity.
Germany has provided the means to realize the BVDM and the FOGRA, which are financed by the government, unions and some leading machinery manufacturers.
There is unfortunately nothing similar in France or other countries…
I’m quite sure this situation is not exclusively due to the profession or sector.
The problem is complex.
I’m finally just an ordinary user who tries to work with the latest update available in order to achieve the best work possible.
Regards.
Axel
From: <eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> on behalf of Andreas Kraushaar <Kraushaar@fogra.org>
Reply-To: "eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com" <eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Date: lundi 6 février 2017 19:44
To: "eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com" <eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] eci offset profiles surface finished.
Dear all,
after so many year of building "Fogra standards" we all know that each printing condition is quite a challenge and easily needs 1/2 to 1 year. The required resources are huge (in particular for web based printing).
On the other hand I need to say that any industry gets the standard they deserve.
What I am saying is, that without explicit way of financing the key contributors it remains subject for those people magic time. And you know they have plenty of them. It sounds a little direct and disillusioning but that is how I see the current situation.
That means you either find a group of interested parties that collect some money (as the FOGRA54 LWV B printer do right now) - including to accept that other not paying competitors will later benefit from it - or you need to live with individual retargeting
transforms (where I need to say that the color server are really powerful today).
regards
Andy Kraushaar
Von: eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com <eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> im Auftrag von Kleeberg, Dieter (bvdm) <dk@bvdm-online.de>
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Februar 2017 16:48
An: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com
Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] eci offset profiles surface finished.
Dear Axel,
of course, my answer was only a pragmatical suggestion in order to bridge the time gap until ECI will be able to provide new “v3 laminate profiles”. And of course you are right,
it cannot be the task of the printers to calculate such special profiles or to carry out TVI experiments.
J
Best regards,
Dieter
Von: eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com [mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com]
Im Auftrag von Axel Robert
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Februar 2017 15:53
An: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com
Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] eci offset profiles surface finished.
Dear Dieter,
I am afraid that most of our printer would not be able to change anything in their own process;
especially with the curves adaptation in their own RIP.
This is, alas, what I too often hear around me.
And I also think it’s not devoted to the ordering customer to do this job.
J
That is why I would like so much an ECI update.
Anyhow, many thanks for your clever and clear answer.
Regards.
Axel
From: <eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> on behalf of "Kleeberg, Dieter (bvdm)" <dk@bvdm-online.de>
Reply-To: "eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com" <eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Date: lundi 6 février 2017 11:39
To: "eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com" <eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] eci offset profiles surface finished.
Dear Axel,
the need to create “v3 laminate profiles” may depend on the common progress in switching to F51 (and F52).
Apart from colorimetric differences, the main difference between F39 and F49/F50 is the epic reduction of TVIs:
F39 --> F49/F50 requires [curve A (40 % + 13 % = 53 % in CMY patches) and curve B (40 % + 16 % = 56 % in K patch)] –10 % = 43 % (CMY) and 46 % (K) by application of film. (Furthermore:
–5…7 % by application of UV coat, –2…4 % by application of dispersion coat.)
If you already switched to the new printing conditions with all their changes in M1 measuring mode and D50 lighting, you could try to apply the TVI reductions to the F51 profile:
F51 by application of film would require curve A (40 % + 15,3 % = 55,3 % in CMYK patches)] –10 % = 45,3 % in the 40 % CMYK patches.
It’s not trivial but worth to find out how good the harmonized TVI curves would work with films.
Best regards,
Dieter
Dieter Kleeberg
Referent Technik + Forschung
Bundesverband Druck und Medien e.V. (bvdm)
German Printing and Media Industries Federation (bvdm)
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Von:
eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com [mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com]
Im Auftrag von Axel Robert
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Februar 2017 09:12
An: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com
Betreff: [ECI-EN] eci offset profiles surface finished.
Wichtigkeit: Hoch
Dear all,
I would like to obtain more information about the following ICC profiles:
PSO_Coated_v2_300_Glossy_laminate_eci.icc
PSO_Coated_v2_300_Matte_laminate_eci.icc
I partially switched from F39 to F51 and F47 to F52.
But I still use the former (aka F49 and F50).
Should I take into account they also will change since the new printing conditions?
Are they still relevant?
Or should they be adapted?
And if so, when or how?
Thank you for your answer.
Regards.
Axel
Axel Robert | Prepress Manager
Ubisoft EMEA |Manufacturing
28, rue Armand Carrel | 93100 Montreuil | France
Tel: +33(0)1 48 18 52 03 | Skype: axelprepress