Hello everyone,

I appreciate your time and attention, your answers are very important for me.
Velvet seems to be a less matte stratification that F49. But the result seems to be very low reflectance and does make the colour lighter and a touch yellower.

'The alternative can be to laminate the proof with the same film, if you have access to such equipment.

Important: then you need also a profile (or "gamut" in GMG-speak) of the laminated proof (print an ECI2002 or IT8.7/4 with a linear transformation on your proofer, laminate and measure). 

Do not assume that you can simply make a F39 proof and laminate it to get the same optical effect and color shift as on the print - much of the color shift is additional optical dot gain which depends on the screen.'

Thanks for the tip :) If I'm lucky, maybe I could do a press test and laminate.

Gentlemen, thank you very much.

Best regards.

Hervé

2018-02-27 4:23 GMT+09:00 Nick Burton <nick.burton@magharl.co.uk>:
Hi all

I am wondering if ‘velvet’ refers to what is normally stated as a soft touch varnish this normally should be having very low reflectance and does make the colour lighter and a touch yellower. 

For spot colours we normally give printers pre and post values to help mix the ink where as with process we ask to see sheets unvarnished and check to 12647 as I don’t believe a standard has been created for this kind of work yet.

Would be interesting to hear any other opinions or whether this is something of an ISO consideration.

Kind regards 
Nick


On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 at 17:43, Kleeberg, Dieter (bvdm) <dk@bvdm-online.de> wrote:

Salut Hervé,

 

additionally to Hanno’s answer: A prerequisite of use of the profile “PSO_Coated_v2_300_Matte_laminate_eci.icc” (seems to be the right choice for velvet) is a tone value increase 10% higher compared to Fogra39. That means, in the 40% tone you should set an increase value of 13% + 10% = 23% for CMY and of 16% + 10% = 26% for K. I don’t know the effects of “velvet” but I think you should not go beyond 10%+ because that increase is a compensation of the light refraction in the film layer depending on its typical thickness. This is only a rough rule of thumb, and for glossy laminate you can work with the same curves.

 

Best regards,

Dieter

 

 

Von: eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com [mailto:eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Hanno Hoffstadt
Gesendet: Montag, 26. Februar 2018 09:40
An: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com
Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] Question about velvet lamination

 

Hi Hervé,

 

I am not familiar with "velvet films" as a term. Are they very silky, matte (fuzzy) and at the same time with a wide "glossy sheen" which captures much of the ambient light, but directional? So that intensity changes with orientation?

This is what I assume for the following...

 

It is a difficult case for proofing. The characterization data are for 45/0 geometry, but the viewing is more like diffuse illumination with an overall direction, which in this case can make a big difference.

It may help to get the viewing closer to a 45/0 or 0/45 situation by blocking much of the other diffuse ambient light. Then a print-to-proof match which measures close to 0 Delta E will also appear close.

 

F49 is probably a bit too light in the shadows, you may see more contrast on the laminated print. But it should get the color shift approximately right if your screen is around 150-180 lpi.

(F49 and F50 are not well suited for extremely fine or coarse or NP/FM screens, where the color shifts will be smaller.)

But this is only the colorimetric part of the story... without the surface properties.

 

There is no proofing substrate which matches the surface of matte and silky lamination well.

The alternative can be to laminate the proof with the same film, if you have access to such equipment.

Important: then you need also a profile (or "gamut" in GMG-speak) of the laminated proof (print an ECI2002 or IT8.7/4 with a linear transformation on your proofer, laminate and measure). 

Do not assume that you can simply make a F39 proof and laminate it to get the same optical effect and color shift as on the print - much of the color shift is additional optical dot gain which depends on the screen.

 

Best regards

Hanno

 

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Am 26.02.2018 um 03:09 schrieb LYAUDET, Herve <h.lyaudet@altavia-paris.com>:

 

Hello everyone,

 

I request an expert opinion about velvet lamination. Maybe one of the ECI members can help me ?

Can i use the F49 matte laminate characterization for a velvet lamination?

..Velvet lamination is very specific..

 

Best regards.

 

Hervé

 

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