Dear all,
the paper industry has many good reasons to stick with sphere instruments and D65 light source. Providing in addition M1 values (and dB values) is a communication means that would be highly appreciated but also keep in mind that these figures vary a bit.
What if a customer measures a sample and complains a colour differences of e.g. dE00=2,1?
There are so many sources of uncertainty (a user errors) that I would not like to work at the help desk :-)
regards
Andy
LAB_L | LAB_A | LAB_B | LAB_L | LAB_A | LAB_B | Delta E-76 | Delta E2000 | ||||
Category | Manufacturer | Measurement D50/2° M1 | Target M1 | ||||||||
PS 1 (Fogra 51) | UPM | UPM Finesse Premium Silk Coated | 96,54 | 1,91 | -5,72 | 95 | 1,5 | -6 | 1,62 | 1,12 | OK |
PS 1 (Fogra 51) | Sappi | Magno Satin, 170 gr. | 95,48 | 1,53 | -6,78 | 95 | 1,5 | -6 | 0,92 | 0,68 | OK |
PS 1 (Fogra 51) | Sappi | Magno Star, 170 gr. | 94,8 | 1,4 | -6,4 | 95 | 1,5 | -6 | 0,47 | 0,38 | OK |
PS 5 (Fogra 52) | UPM | UPM Fine Uncoated | 94,39 | 3,51 | -10,76 | 93,5 | 2,5 | -10 | 1,55 | 1,40 | OK |
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: paper suited for printing according to ISO 12647-2-2013
(Jens Trost)
2. Re: paper suited for printing according to ISO 12647-2-2013
(Andreas Kraushaar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 06:55:47 +0100
From: Jens Trost <newsletter@jenstrost.de>
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] paper suited for printing according to ISO
12647-2-2013
To: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com
Message-ID: <371A09F1-5514-4EC6-8F1D-CE299CF57C3C@jenstrost.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello Ingi,
it may be not exactly what you are looking for, but proof.de just released a list of various paper whites across many availabe papers.
It's german based so I don't know if it's any help to you, but it's worth a look:
https://shop.proof.de/info/paper-white.html
Best regards
Jens
> Am 01.03.2019 um 14:18 schrieb Ingi Karlsson <ingi@spot-nordic.com>:
>
> Just one small comment on suitable production paper.
>
> It would be nice if paper manufacturers could contribute and send a list of suited paper for production printing to Fogra 51 and Fogra 52 by doing their own measurement with M1, - which would make that paper suited for printing according to ISO 12647-2-2013.
>
> I have not done a lot of measurements, but the specs I have found about commercially available papers either have nothing about white point to D50, - or the measurement is M0 and the suggested profiles for the paper are the old Fogra 39 / Fogra 47 - based on the M0 measurement (even if the paper is almost perfectly correct for printing according to the current ISO standard according to my own measurements). That again means that the paper is in fact NOT suited for printing according to Fogra 39 / Fogra 47 because of the OBA that is ignored when measured with the M0 filter.
>
> There are however no doubt papertypes out there that, when measured with the M1 - and M0 condition are appropriate for printing according to Fogra 39, Fogra 47.
>
> In fact it would be useful if Fogra would start offering paper manufacturers to certify their production paper as suited for commercial printing according to Fogra 51 / Fogra 52.
> It would surely make my life easier if I could look the suitable papers up on the Fogra website, - and I'm sure for many others as well, - even just color conscious print customers and designers that would prefer to keep their colors in check cross media.
>
> Best regards and wishing you a nice weekend
>
> Ingi Karlsson
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 06:35:09 +0000
From: Andreas Kraushaar <Kraushaar@fogra.org>
Subject: Re: [ECI-EN] paper suited for printing according to ISO
12647-2-2013
To: "eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com"
<eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1551854100626.54119@fogra.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Ingi, all,
we considered such a certification but refrain from starting it for various reasons:
- limited interest by the manufacturer
- communicate the uncertainty budget for the actual measurements (due to "normal" device variations) - there is no one CIELAB value for a paper.
- unclear requirements for re-certifications (if the recipes are changed)
- a lot of information by some manufacturer (sometimes unstructured, I agree)
regards
Andy
________________________________________
Von: eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com <eci-en-bounces@lists.callassoftware.com> im Auftrag von Jens Trost <newsletter@jenstrost.de>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. M?rz 2019 06:55
An: eci-en@lists.callassoftware.com
Betreff: Re: [ECI-EN] paper suited for printing according to ISO 12647-2-2013
Hello Ingi,
it may be not exactly what you are looking for, but proof.de just released a list of various paper whites across many availabe papers.
It's german based so I don't know if it's any help to you, but it's worth a look:
https://shop.proof.de/info/paper-white.html
Best regards
Jens
> Am 01.03.2019 um 14:18 schrieb Ingi Karlsson <ingi@spot-nordic.com>:
>
> Just one small comment on suitable production paper.
>
> It would be nice if paper manufacturers could contribute and send a list of suited paper for production printing to Fogra 51 and Fogra 52 by doing their own measurement with M1, - which would make that paper suited for printing according to ISO 12647-2-2013.
>
> I have not done a lot of measurements, but the specs I have found about commercially available papers either have nothing about white point to D50, - or the measurement is M0 and the suggested profiles for the paper are the old Fogra 39 / Fogra 47 - based on the M0 measurement (even if the paper is almost perfectly correct for printing according to the current ISO standard according to my own measurements). That again means that the paper is in fact NOT suited for printing according to Fogra 39 / Fogra 47 because of the OBA that is ignored when measured with the M0 filter.
>
> There are however no doubt papertypes out there that, when measured with the M1 - and M0 condition are appropriate for printing according to Fogra 39, Fogra 47.
>
> In fact it would be useful if Fogra would start offering paper manufacturers to certify their production paper as suited for commercial printing according to Fogra 51 / Fogra 52.
> It would surely make my life easier if I could look the suitable papers up on the Fogra website, - and I'm sure for many others as well, - even just color conscious print customers and designers that would prefer to keep their colors in check cross media.
>
> Best regards and wishing you a nice weekend
>
> Ingi Karlsson
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